Cash Games
I'm putting this poll up because I have found a venue that is secluded and private, but can only hold 3 tables. It is in Concord, it's not the Ritz, but it's not a dump either, and it is very secluded and private. So I wanted to see what the interest would be in cash games.
Comments
...which is also high... but the cap at $5 is more reasonable then a cap at $10. Imagine, $10 out of every large pot... owie.
most nolimit games which is what works for cash games lately.......the rake around town is 10% max 10$. Most sanctioned casinos take 10% max 5$ like rama perry and brantford. No limit games are the exception because you get larger pots.
You will not find an underground game that rakes less than 10%. And if the ame is 10-20 or bigger it is max 10$.
I invite all those who wish to seek out the 5% rake (does not exist) or the 10% max 5$ rule at the casinos. Private cash games cost money to run, in staffing, food drink and venue costs. Not to mention rentals if they need it. the 10% max 10$ covers these ecxpenses.
I would ask that gamblers lighten up a bit. It is amazing to see just how catious a consumer gets when he is calculating a rake. His life might be filled with eronious fixed expenses, ladden with costs and taxes, and unforseen expenses. He may enjoy spending 5$ for a coffee, or 90$ or more on a pair of jeans........BUT when it comes to the 50cents he gets raked out of a poker pot, HE BECOMES SUPER CONSUMER!!! Get real people.........
Yes none of like to get raped......but at a poker table, it is never the house that you have to worry about raping you. My point is clarified when you look at where your money goes when you lose. At a poker table.......when you buy in and go broke..........(Providing a 10% rake) 90% of your hard earned money goes to some shmo who beat your pants off!! 90%.....THAT IS A RAKE!!
A RAKE IN FACT THAT YOU SHOULD BE MORE CONCERNED WITH!! THAT IS A RAKE ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTROL!!
So please lets get off the enterprising minds of the few that want to run games fro enjoyment and not have it cost them anything, and hopefully pay them for their efforts. No body gets rich here......and Rob Spence certainly is not planning on opening up a daily game. he strikes me as a guy who is involved for the love of the game, and wants to get his while it is hot!!
Sorry to snap at everyone, but i beleive I make valid points.....
any thoughts on a serious, analytical level to what I have said.......
And what is funnier than all of that is the number of people who love slots where the "rake" is high and you cannot ever win in the long run and people are lining up. But that's probably due to the fact they can't see that they are losing 10% on their money. I love to minimize my costs of playing poker but all anyone can ask for is the costs be upfront and then you know what your getting. Then you can make an educated playing decision. Plan a wedding/stag/anniversary party and you'll find out the high costs of renting/catering and setting things up. Hell I know a bar that runs a $10 tourney +$5 while that sounds fishy they get lots of people and it justifies the cost of running it.
I can tell Josh has organized a game or two, he is speaking like someone with experience. It takes a lot to put stuff like this together and keep everything on the level. Anyone who has a problem with the rake should try to organize a large event and see just how green the grass is.
I think it is unfair to question other people for questioning the rake. They have a valid concern and have every right to question it. I won’t participate in games such as these for my own reasons about validity of the rake, legality of the situation, and other concerns that my gut tells me to avoid.
So in short, I am tired of seeing people get snippy with others when this subject comes up. If you don’t want the questions, don’t advertise the product. If you’re selling me a TV for $2000 and someone else offers the same product for $1500 I may just ask you, “Why so muchâ€? If you want to make the sale, you would probably have to answer the question. Or worse yet if you are selling it for $1000 and it is out of a back of a van, I may just ask, “Why so little?â€
Just to let everyone know, these are just numbers I threw in the poll. I am looking for opinions, critizim, complaints, anything that you have to offer. I want all the input, good or bad.
I am not just an organizer, I too am an avid fan of playing. What I am trying to do is organize a game where people can play, and have fun.
The purpose of the rake is to cover expenses, and yes maybe make a couple of bucks, I DO NOT want to get rich off this, I just don't want to lose my shirt organizing a game, I can lose it on my own at a table.
What I am looking for is enough advice to find a happy medium between everybody, so that I can organize a game where we can all go, and not have to drive hours to get there.
So please, give the advice, critizim or any other input on the amounts or just on anything about it. It would be nice to have a place to play that everyone feels comfortable in. The tourney's and home games are nice, but a small cash game away from the norm would be nice too.
Rob
And therein lies your dilemma. It is a very shard edge that you walk when you play in game that you are already profiting on. Yes, people do it; I am just saying it can become an issue. If you are the one making and enforcing the rules of the house and a decision needs to be made that you’re involved in it can become quite dicey. Although the ruling may be just and correct in any poker room across the globe, the appearance of an unfair edge in your favour can cause problems.
The other player may feel you have the advantage since you’re paying the person making the final ruling.
I am not saying if you participating in a cash game that you are raking is permissible or not. I am just stating what could happen and how others may view it.
I don't know you and I have never played in one of the tournaments that you're involved with, nor have I played in anything Riverratjosh has done. So please don't take this as a personal attack.
As for avoiding this type of game. That is a consumer descision. In my world where I am hired to run games and tourneys and run my own, I run into some people who feel that way. They are usually the sort who enjoy playing with friends, and for fun. The reality is that when they go to any gambling establishment private or sanctioned, there is an angle. The angles are better served out in the open I agree, and I know I strive to do that as I gain experience and grow within our lttle industry. Avoiding the games are again your descision, but I would not be so skeptical if I were you. You seem defensive as if you expect to be ripped off. You do your due dilegence on a particular situation and decide accordingly.
i do have an opinion about these overly carefull people though. In my experince they do not usually make good poker players. Their catuiosness shows up in thier play. (not always but in general) You can usually spot the "el cheapo" and play him accordingly. I am not throwing insults out there I promise. I am just stating what I have seen. I have seen hundreds like that, who show up at a tourney and want to know the chop, the blinds structure before they play (which is o.k.) then they complain about 6th prize, and fight to have the blinds go from 50-100 to 75-150 instead of striaght to 100-200, and sometimes you hear them chirp during the tourney about how quick the blind rounds are moving..........or how table balancing takes place...............I have seen it all........and more times than not......these players are not the ones winning. Not always.....Just more times than not.............They get concerned about the 6th prize being out of proportion and they have merely a 1-40 shot of getting it in the first place. It's like ranting about the trip to florida you don't want for 3 hours........and are probably not going to buy anyway. What a waste of time!!
At my WSOP satellite I gave 2 slot machines away!! 6th and seventh prize!! I was originally going to pay 6 places. So these machines reflected the increased prize pool that an exrtra 10 players provided. The tourney started and I had 3 or 4 of the 90 players there complain that they did not want a stinking machine...........At that minute, an elderly man who was playing stood up and screamed at these guys in front of everyone!!......he simply said "WIN IT FIRST YOU IDIOTS THEN COMPLAIN" he added that "YOU CAME TO WIN THE WSOP SEAT, NOT 6th YOU IDIOTS" and he said "IDIOTS" " IF YOU CAN"T WIN AND GET LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET A LOWER PRIZE IT'S A BONUS..................He pretty much said it all. i had no words, cause he hit my point on the head!!
As it tunred out 2 guys who druled over the machines won them........they loved it........and happy customers were made............what is sad is that I probably had a few sour customers.....and for what????? Something that never applied to THEM EVER. I don't need people like that.........they make a stink over nothing!!!! They polluted my game and hapy customers with thier garbage opinion that never APPLIED TO THEM....................It still rings in my head......"WIN IT FIRST YOU IDIOTS" the machine might not and LIKELY not, even Mathematically Probably not ever cross you path, sho SHUT UP About it in front of a full room of people having a good time!!
Wow what a rant........but I am sure you get the point out of it........lets all worry about more important things at a game than the 10% rake (which is 20%) at most successfull and highly populated tourneys around town), and lets worry about where the other 90% goes..............when you lose. You may become a better player.......
Now I will calm down......
Josh
All your points are valid and I do agree with you, somewhat. Me being one of the people who have been under the gun, I would like to say why the first time out I was so defensive. It was not because I was hiding anything, I even posted my entire costs to justify everything. I have never claimed that there was no profit, what I have claimed was I refuse to take a loss. The first tournament Terry and I held, we made $842 above and beyond, we would have made more but we threw some back at the prize pool, dealers and regretfully the venue (who had already rapped us). The April tourney we made $280 each (because of the cash game). This thread is not about feeling people out for a profit, but rather feeling people out on what they would preffer. I would preffer to quit my business and do this for a living, but instead I am trying to this once in awhile for yes, the occasional few bucks, but mostly for a place to play for all of us. Hence, why I am asking for input, to accomidate everyone that is interested. And as for the mathamatician, I have never once hid my expences vs. price, and I never will, I want everybody to know what is going on, so that they feel comfortable playing at my games, and will return.
There is NO legality in any underground poker tourney or cash game.period. If you are worried about that you should only play at the casino. And please do not take that as dig or trash talk. I am just saying it is all illegal, unless you are at a casino or playing a FREE game at the bar where the prize is not cash.
I no longer get snippy, I have answered every question thrown at me, and will continue to do so.
Thank you for your input, and I hope I have put your non-trust of me to rest.
Not taken personal at all, LOL as a matter of fact, I have been first one out of BOTH of my tournaments.
I would never, never cheat anybody out of money, or anything else for that matter, I do beleive that there are organizers that might. But I have 2 children that look up to me and ask me every day "how much did you make today dad?". Now, my oldest son knows that I run poker games, he knows I shouldn't, but he aslo see's me go to work every morning. If I am going to set a bad example for him, I want it to be in the most honurable way possible, so I can say " I have never stolen from anybody". I play cards with him everynight, and in everything I try to teach him, I say the same thing to him as my father said to me..."You only have two things in life, your word and your integrity, do not loose sight of either".
I guess when you talk about bigger venue games (rented halls and such) with an announced rake; the fear of it getting busted grows a bit higher.
As for the people that complain about prize structure and such, I think the man expressed that point well. “Idiotsâ€, indeed.
As for the real topic of this thread, CASH GAMES, I do find the $10 max rake a bit high but of course I would rather be raked $10 on a $100 pot than lose $50 to that same pot.
However, if there is a rake of this percentage, I would like to feel pretty safe that the venue is safe and the dealers are good.
but seriously, I am equally impressed with Flint Bones response. I expecting him to crack back after my rant, but it seems we have a thinker on our hands. It is nice to see someone with foresight, and intelligence out here. Maybe we will meet at some event down the road..................at the final table of coarse..........where rake no longer becomes an issue.:) hehe!!
SO, it is possilbe.
And, no, I'm not giving out the clubs names. If you want the info you can PM me, but I am not here to advertise for anyone.
Anyhow...anythingis believable at this point. One thing I know is.......these establishments are able to cap thier rake because they most likely do not pay thier dealers. Dealers work solely on tips in these clubs......it is etiquette to toss the dealer a buck or per hand, and he makes his 25 per hour. sometimes more. And if they don't take a cut of his earnins aswell I would be shocked.
No arguements here, but I would be curious to know which games youre talking about so we can get the real skinny on them. If youre right your right, but it usually comes with alot of buts!!.................like the bad beat buck, like the dealers not getting paid, and so on and so on........
I praise them if they can have an operation going at the mark that youre suggesting. It is noble of them and I hope they do well. I am rather close to most of the GTA bigger games ,and I know the circumstances there to be otherwise. I will name clubs......
Sams at Keele and 7 rakes max 5 plus the bad beat buck...........and they dont pay dealers, they take 10% of his tips on top of that.
Bennys is the same...............The training room has a 10% max 10$ rake on thier 10-20 and 25-50 games, and they also don't pay the dealers. Tips only. They also rake out of the pot for a bad beat jackpot.......They also rake 20% out of their 3 weekly tourneys.
these are three of the cities most reptuable games, run by known nice people, and the most trafficed.
The games you speak of must be trying to edge out the competition by trying something new, and again it is noble.
We have room for 3 tables, so,
1/2 game(buyin max.$100), 2/4(buyin max.$200) games, a mini turbo tournament or a 1/2-2/4 game on the third (which ever is agreed upon amoungst players), free soda's, $2 beers, snacks and stuff, once or twice a week.
The rake can be 5% upto $5, the mini's can be $11, $22 or $55 (players decide) winner takes all.
Like I said, not in this to get rich, just cover the cost of dealers, munchies, and pop.
How do you feel about that??
Rob
I need my beauty sleep and trust me I need all the help I can get. This face ain't made for TV.
I like the idea of a regular Cash game though.
LOL, ya know, a couple of friends of mine have thought about takin a month or so off work this summer and renting an RV to tour Ontario playing in poker games just for fun, we are working on our wife's, but I think that life is going to get in the way of what would make a really good story for the forum board.
Then you could make a commercial for the forum just like the one for Tim Hortons where they are driving across the country. Hmm, just as I am typing this, "Let's get retarded" by the Black Eyed Peas came up on my MP3 player .... coincidence?
Nice guys.
Do they also own a couple strip joints? I know that is how some "dancers" are paid... or not paid in this case..