Bankroll growth

Hey folks!

Hope this isn't in a bad section, but I have recently really dedicated my efforts into growing a bankroll. As I'm sure most people have done at first, poker br management was just a boring side thing, and I'd take money out, go win or lose, and then buy myself something shiny if I won.

Now however, I have built up the bankroll to a decent amount, and have managed to get it up to a level where I'm not sure what's best to do with it next. I've been following the 5% rule for buyins (mostly), and my (first) BR goal was to get it up to 6k (which would properly fund most 1/3 casino game buyin of $300. This is a big amount of money to have lying around the house however, so I'm curious about what people would suggest to do. I have had a few discussions, and read some ideas, but I'm curious about what others would think / do? Some considerations:

1. A long term goal is obviously to grow to a point where I can play higher limits / stakes such as 2/5 (20k bankroll)
2. I want to continue to keep my bankroll separate from my "spending money", so that I don't fall into the trap of taking a bit out here and there for "life"
3. I do also want to have poker as a part time income, so winnings moving forward will be divided between building towards 20k, and actually having some income from this
4. Ease of access to the bankroll as well potential for passive growth. Mostly this is referring to putting it into a bank account, either TFSA or international money like a US bank account.

Thanks in advance.



  • 100% don't leave it with a casinos unless they are giving you interest on it.. I have always suggested GICs that are cashable.. you can normally get your money in 3 days and I always have enough money in my account to borrow from it while the GIC cashes to replace it and I have a seconday free checking account with TD for my bankroll so that I cannot spend it on shiny things with my debit card :)

    For me I reinvest all winnings to the bank roll if you plan on building it if not you will chip away that amount in a very short time. For me I I also put money into my bankroll as part of my budget IE $50 a month or $100 here or there to help build it faster and if you have the disposable income. BR to me does not alwyas have to be winnings. The point is to get it up there so you can play higher stakes

    Just this donkey's opinions :)
  • edited May 24
    Interest rates are coming down so get it in a high interest savings account soonest.

    Simplii is offering 5.9% for 5 months
    Tangerine 6% 5 months
    *new accounts

    Obviously if you have room TFSA is the way to go if earning interest otherwise you will be giving it back to the govt at your marginal tax rate come tax time. Just be careful if you move money in and out frequently. ie. if you put 5k in and out several times throughout the year, each deposit will count against your room and withdrawals will not be counted until the reset on Jan. 1 so you can run out of room quickly.

    Most major banks are offering similar short term deals on opening a high interest savings account. BMO and Scotiabank come to mind.

    I wouldn't use a GIC. Even if it is cashable you pay for that feature. Bank savings rates are generally higher (on offers) anyways.

    Investment account wise, TDWaterhouse pays 4.55% on their ISA account but that will come down as soon as interest rates drop. ETF's like CASH are also good, but again subject to dropping as soon as the govt cuts rates and you may have to pay trading fees depending on your broker.

    Just be honest, you are going to blow it all on your wedding anyways...
  • Some great first advice here....

    More thoughts I had questions on.... as I progress the BR up to 20k, what "split" would you folks reccommend in terms of adding winnings to the bankroll and using the money as income for life in general? I had thought 50/50 initially, but noting how long that would take to get up to a level to play 2/5 would be a long haul.....

  • edited May 26
    I just had a conversation at home last week about the significance of the $2/5, $20000 milestone. I've done it before, for poker and other endeavours. I know what works for me. And I (always) have opinions.
    A bankroll building mindset needs concrete monetary decisions beyond just a final dollar amount. Having set a $20000 goal you now need to be specific about what you want to achieve and what you need to keep the act of achieving manageable. These decisions will not just make attaining your goal easier, they will inform and ensure the stages of growth that follow.

    You're already asking the right questions.

    Does it matter when you get to the milestone?
    If not it doesn't matter how much of your winnings you use for other things. Anything less then 100% will get you there eventually.
    If you do have a deadline, workout how much play time you need, based on your current rate of return, to get there. If you can't find enough time you'll need a new deadline. If you have extra time, the additional earnings are all up for grabs.

    Do you want or need some return as you build, beyond getting to the milestone?
    Does it not feel real if you don't get something along the way? Do you want to recoup your original investment in yourself? Need to keep the lights on at home?
    Budget for it. When, how much and why. Adjust your deadline to reflect your actual return.
    The why is important. If you'll always have the same needs or urges, start planning for them now. Address the problematic ones before they destroy your, now and future, bankroll.

    What happens when you achieve your milestone?
    Are you making this a business, producing regular ongoing income?
    Do you want to monetize your hobby? Pay for travel to games and some extra cash?
    Is it a goal unto itself? Can you do it? Could you just use an extra 20 grand for a thing?
    If you know what happens then, you can better inform your decisions now. Start the habits that will enable you going forward.

    Are you keeping records?
    Do it.
    Do it now.
    Everything you tell yourself about ROI, time management and budget is a self serving fantasy. Hours played, dollars in, dollars out, and all expenses. Even if you have accurate knowledge of these things currently, you will grow, the games will change and the body of financial information you internalize will become a rounded generalization of an increasingly broad and distant data set.

    Will you still want to try after looking at the impact of these decisions? I'll assume yes for Mark, but consider the following.
    Does the grind suck out your life? Is the return not worth it? Are you seeing enough of the people you care about? Is your job paying enough that you should just save a bankroll and skip the low level grind?

    Bankroll management is a weird part of poker discipline. Learning not to care about money when at the table seems at odds with sticking to a financial plan but they are complimentary. Both are about managing the effects of variance. At the table variation is an action in and of the moment, a predictable realization of probability managed by good play. Away from the table variation is calculable for the past and the future, a predictable realization of probability managed by good bankroll habits.

    This time around I have started with $100 ( a couple of times) and have worked up to playing $1/3. I add no additional outside money, cover all expenses from the bankroll and plan to treat myself to a poker holiday at the 3/4 point, $15000. All winnings go into the bankroll. Results are tracked and give me a general idea of when I'll get there and if I need to play more to be timely.
    When I start playing $2/5 it will be time to reassess my ROI. I will begin supplementing my monthly income with a fixed amount of poker money (to see some reward for my efforts) while primarily building the 'roll.
    At $5/10, about $50- 75000 depending on my skill at the time, I will settle in, trading off bankroll growth rate for income. At this point I will consider it a job.
    I have a schedule, excel sheets and a plan. And you can too.
  • Should I trim that post down by half or more?
    Slow day at work and I got carried away little.
  • Well don't I first have to be a player who wins more than he loses? Nah, I'll just work my business more to fund my bad habits.. >:)

    The rest of you can use my losing $$$ to fund your bankrolls, you're welcome.
  • King Mob wrote: »
    Should I trim that post down by half or more?
    Slow day at work and I got carried away little.

    I prefer longer posts when dealing with text-based only chats! But I'll pick your brain a bit next time I see you.

  • DrTyore wrote: »
    4. Ease of access to the bankroll as well potential for passive growth. Mostly this is referring to putting it into a bank account, either TFSA or international money like a US bank account.

    I would also like some input on this. I missed out on a rebuy at the WSOP Toronto due to service issues (that I have addressed).
    I haven't had an Ewallet for awhile and am looking for a new one. I'm not at all familiar with recent changes in international or electronic banking.
    Unsure what I would do with a large win out of province, let alone out of country. Probably stuff socks full of bills in my carry on.
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