WSOP Step Qualifier on Party
Just wondering if anyone else has been trying these? It seems one of the easier ways to get into the WSOP. For those not familar, it's similar to their existing Step program (Place in the Top X in Step N to move to Step N+1)
This one has six steps and the format of the first one is very, very interesting... Here are the payouts of Step 1 (Entry $11+$1)
1st: Freeroll to Step 2
2nd-5th: Repeat Step 1
6th: $7
7th-10th: out
The interesting part of this tournament is that effectively the top 6 (of 10) spot payout which make for unusually early bubble points, occuring with 7 and 6 players left respectively, followed by a period of loose play to the last couple. I've paid the entry once and have found it nearly impossible, playing a tight agressive game, to bust out earlier than 5th.
I usually sit back and attempt to identify the tight players. Usually 2 players bust quickly, then the game tightens up to the point where you can steal blinds at the 25/50 level. Playing tight and agressive will get a lot of players to lay down hands and is the point where you want to a) pick up some chips for the end game and b) not try to get in coin flip positions.
Once the bubble bursts, I then look for a spot to double up because, I either double up, or I bust out and get to try again for free. Play generally loosens up, so it a good spot to make moves with good hands as players are more willing to play back at you with marginal holdings once there's only 5 players left.
I've gotten a number of thirds, one second and a fifth. My second place was especially heart breaking when my Aces got cracked by Nines with an all-in pre-flop and a 9 on the turn.
Once you get into the second step it seems even easier to stick around.
If anyone else is playing this, I'd be interested to hear how you're doing and how you're adjusting your game to account for an early bubble.
This one has six steps and the format of the first one is very, very interesting... Here are the payouts of Step 1 (Entry $11+$1)
1st: Freeroll to Step 2
2nd-5th: Repeat Step 1
6th: $7
7th-10th: out
The interesting part of this tournament is that effectively the top 6 (of 10) spot payout which make for unusually early bubble points, occuring with 7 and 6 players left respectively, followed by a period of loose play to the last couple. I've paid the entry once and have found it nearly impossible, playing a tight agressive game, to bust out earlier than 5th.
I usually sit back and attempt to identify the tight players. Usually 2 players bust quickly, then the game tightens up to the point where you can steal blinds at the 25/50 level. Playing tight and agressive will get a lot of players to lay down hands and is the point where you want to a) pick up some chips for the end game and b) not try to get in coin flip positions.
Once the bubble bursts, I then look for a spot to double up because, I either double up, or I bust out and get to try again for free. Play generally loosens up, so it a good spot to make moves with good hands as players are more willing to play back at you with marginal holdings once there's only 5 players left.
I've gotten a number of thirds, one second and a fifth. My second place was especially heart breaking when my Aces got cracked by Nines with an all-in pre-flop and a 9 on the turn.
Once you get into the second step it seems even easier to stick around.If anyone else is playing this, I'd be interested to hear how you're doing and how you're adjusting your game to account for an early bubble.
Comments
Of course, I'm probably going to end up giving them a try anyway. :cool: BONSAIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you enter the higher steps with a direct buy-in? I know I can look this up myself, and where to do it, so I don't need an answer unless you happen to know off the top of your head. In fact, the question was more along the lines of a hint at a possible strategy rather than a real question. :cool:
ScottyZ
I'm 95% certain that you can buy in directly to the upper levels.
It is possible to buy directly into any of the 6 steps. $50+5 for step 2, $200+20 for step 3, $500+40 for step 4, $1000+80 for step 5, and step 6 is $2000+150
The Party WSOP steps seem like a very reasonable way to win a seat. Â Basically, if you're a half-decent SNG player, you should end up at LEAST getting another entry into the step, if you're not able to win the SNG.
And as Scotty pointed out, Party is making an absolute killing in rake from these step tournaments, in a rather brilliant kind of way. Â It's not 'visible' rake. Â That is, you don't pay additional rake as you move up the steps, so beginners think they're only paying a small fee on the first step. Â While this may be true, it's the amount Party is taking OUT of each step that is ludicrous. Â It's not what you're not paying, it's what's not there for you to win.
That being said, the opportunity to finish sixth in a ten-player SNG and still get almost all of your buy-in back looks very good, and, in fact, it is.
Believe it or not the first step is one of the hardest. You must win your table to move on. The rest of the steps (except the last on #6) are fairly straight forward. Finish first or second.
It sounds very easy, but in reality it is not. I consider myself a pretty good SNG player, placing most of the time in the top three (70-80%). The competion on these steps is quite different that their normal sit and go's.
I have been as high as the 5th level before being knock down to the 2nd level again. Presently I am back to 3rd with about 10-15 hours invested in this.
I think its a great way to get a seat. Just need a little luck and your there, and I plan on seeing you at the WSOP.
Rob.
there's the link to the details...
I'd certainly agree that these tournaments are excellent in the sense of being a practice tool.
Basically you're trading a good chunk of dollar EV (dropping a load of money to the house) for a very substantial lowering your dollar Variance. That's an excellent way to stretch your money in terms of dollars per hour of play.
ScottyZ
Only played once so far, finishing 4th.
Bled off some chips early, down to 550, blinds at 25/50, raise and re-reraise infront of me in late position, moved all-in with KK,
got called by 88, doubling up.
Next hand, AK, made 3xBB raise, 1 caller, A fell on flop, I checked, caller moved all-in with A8, K-kicker was good and doubled up again.
Card dead for a while, but, ran those two hands into top 5.
Finally, with 850 chips, blinds at 200/400, all in from the button with A7o, called by SB- 77, no help and out in 4th.
So...if nothing else, back to the beginning and I have a bit of a feel for it.
Good luck with your quest Rob, and hopefully next i write it'll be about step 2.
Cheers
Magi
** I agree that Party's a brilliant marketing machine.Â
Bang. ?
I don't think it's extra "rake" - The prize pool is being paid out in its entirity. Take a level 1 WSOP step for example ($11+$1)
So they get $110 for entry from the 10 players - makes up the prize pool. (+$10 VIG)
The payouts are:
1st - Entry to step 2 ($50+$5)
2nd-5th - Re-entry to step 1 ($44+$4)
6th - $7 cash ($7)
= $110.
The expected payout for the average player who enters a standard $11+$1 tournament is $11. (That probably sounds like a stupid thing for me to mention, but bare with me.)
The expected payout for the average player who enters a Party Step 1 tournament is incredibly hard to calculate directly. (Yet another aspect of the marketing genius.)
However, to illustrate the point, let me design a new (and simpler) ScottyStep tournament scheme.
ScottyStep 1: An $11+$1 satellite into Step 2. 10 players, one seat in ScottyStep 2 with no other prizes.
ScottyStep 2: A $100+$10 tournament. 10 players, first prize is $1000 with no other prizes.
An average player enters a ScottyStep 1 tournament. So do 99 others (all at ScottyStep 1). Since there is only one cash prize of $1000, it's easy to compute the average player's expected payout. It's just the amount of the prize multiplied by the probability of winning that prize.
Our hero, the average player, has a 1% chance of winning the prize. (A key assumption here is that out hero happens to have the average skill level at all buy-in levels.)
The expected payout for the average player is ($1000) * (0.01) = $10.
This is $1 less than the expected payout from a standard $11+$1 tournament.
The general idea is that a satellite forces you to buy into another tournament. The expected house fee for the average player in a ScottyStep 1 ($11+$1 buy-in) tournament is not $1. It is $2.
The Party Step tournaments are actually far worse in terms of the house fee than the ScottyStep scheme, since the Party Step tournaments keep sending you back and forth, forwards and backwards through the steps. They often keep you at the same step, which is costly in terms of EV.
The brilliance of the Step idea is the following, a pure gem which All_Aces has plucked out earlier in this thread.
You pay Party house fees out of your future expected winnnings, and not out of your pocket (or rather, your online account's pocket). The vast majority of players never realize these winnings (indeed, they never realize the absence of the winnings). Any players who do eventually step up and win are blown away by winning such a huge prize that they will simply run and post the news on their favorite internet forum, and probably not give much thought to the extra missing dough that was taken by the house.
If I may say so myself, the ScottyStep setup is pretty smart too. (Though, clearly a blatant rip-off of whoever invented satellite tournaments in the first place.) Notice that 99 of every 100 ScottyStep participants walks away perfectly content to have paid $1 in house fees, and our hero is damn pleased with his fresh $1,000, unlikely to contemplate the fact that his fair share of the original $1,200 total buy-ins should have been $1,100.
Finally, if you're still not convinced, consider a 100 player $11 + $1 double-shootout (10 tables each play down to 1, then the final 10 play) that pays only the top spot. The winner should get $1,100, right? Right. And giving such a double-shootout the name "ScottyStep", while clever, probably shouldn't be $100 clever.
ScottyZ
Andy Glazer wrote an ariticle in Cardplayer about sattelites. His point was that you should not play in the target tournament unless you figure that you have a +EV for that level of tournament. I think that's what you're getting at with the ScottyStep. However, it's not Party that is getting extra rake, it's the players in the bigger tournament who are gaining. The bottom line, is that from an EV standpoint, you should play in the satellite unless you figure you have +EV in the satellite and the larger tournament.
From a rakte standpoint, they could just run the FinalMagiStep tournament at 1000 + 100 and let you earn your way on your own. You would play lower level tournaments, and pay the $10+1 rake and have to win 20 tournaments to get the entry fee. The more tournaments you have to enter the more rake you pay, and hence get a worse deal than the Scotty Step. The doubleshootout is a red herring. It's a different tournament structure, where there's only one tournament, so there's only one rake. So, Party is not making extra dough on the rake, than they would by running smaller tournaments.Â
Do they create a larger market for these smaller tournaments. Absolutely. But it's a fair price -- they are charging no more rake than they would for a similar priced tournament.
Cheers
Magi