Asking to See Mucked Hands

Dan808

am i going to show my BnM inexperience by asking, "since when can a player ask to see the cards another player has folded?
i was surprised to see it's allowed.

literation

I believe when you have firm suspicion of collusion.

Dan808

yeah, what actually happened: me and one other guy in the hand, i went all in, he called, he won, i mucked. some other guy (pretty new on the table) asked the dealer to see my cards. dealer tapped my cards on the muck pile, then flipped em up.

last hand, so i didn't question it. but i'd like to know that rules on this for future games.

ComaU

Anytime two or more hands go to a showdown every player at the table has the right to ask to see them.
This is a rule I cant stand. I can see if you suspect collusion but it is something people do all the time now out of curiosity. You will even get players who win the pot and ask to see the hands that payed them off. This DOES discourage bad river pay offs and costs you bets.

Dont worry they cant see the cards you have mucked without calling.

ScottyZ

Dan808 wrote:

yeah, what actually happened: me and one other guy in the hand, i went all in, he called, he won, i mucked. some other guy (pretty new on the table) asked the dealer to see my cards. dealer tapped my cards on the muck pile, then flipped em up.

last hand, so i didn't question it. but i'd like to know that rules on this for future games.

If you were the last aggressive bettor (as it sounds like you were in this case), you are obligated to show your hand first. The player who asked to see your hand is perfectly within both the actual rules and the ethics of poker.

ScottyZ

Dan808

ok...got it
sz: ur right about me having to show first. the young gun i was in the hand with tossed his cards up as he called, so i figured i'd just muck em. so i was a little confused when a player not involved asked...but sounds like it's just fine to do so.

thanks everyone

GBHShftMgr

To clarify just a bit, it does not matter if there are two or more players in the hand ... there must be a bet and then only players who have called that bet may be asked to show their hole cards by anyone at that table. The rationale for the rule was " one has to pay to see the hole cards". This rule is probably one of the most misunderstood and abused in the game. The original intent was if a player paid, they then had the right to see the cards, which is fine. However, allowing anyone at the table to ask for the cards was put in as a deterrent to collusion but has degenerated into a variety of reasons to ask to see the cards: everything from trying to anger a player and thus influence their play; to basic curiosity; to trying to figure out what cards a speciifc player will play and so on and so on. From a Poker etiquette and ethical perspective it is wrong to ask to see every set of hole cards for every hand that is called (and also very time consuming). If I see it happening or have it repoted to me by one of my supervisors I will take that player aside and suggest to them why it is not a good habit to get into and hope they understand and agree with me, but at the end of the day, they are fully within their rights under the rules of play in Ontario and virtually all jurisdictions in North America to do so.

Yorkpoker

There was an earlier thread of some length on this - I will go find it ...

Yorkpoker

http://www.pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=3149.0

ConfusedONE

ScottyZ wrote:

Dan808 wrote:

yeah, what actually happened: me and one other guy in the hand, i went all in, he called, he won, i mucked. some other guy (pretty new on the table) asked the dealer to see my cards. dealer tapped my cards on the muck pile, then flipped em up.

last hand, so i didn't question it. but i'd like to know that rules on this for future games.

If you were the last aggressive bettor (as it sounds like you were in this case), you are obligated to show your hand first. The player who asked to see your hand is perfectly within both the actual rules and the ethics of poker.

ScottyZ

let's say you go all in and he folds...does he still have that right? ???
i'm a noob

ScottyZ

let's say you go all in and he folds...does he still have that right? ???

Assuming there are no other players active in the pot, then no. Nobody has the right to see uncalled hands.1

ScottyZ

1Unless there is some other rule that has been triggered, such as "show one, shoe all"

(Okay, that was a pretty amusing typo, so it can stay.)

ConfusedONE

ScottyZ wrote:

let's say you go all in and he folds...does he still have that right? ???

Assuming there are no other players active in the pot, then no. Nobody has the right to see uncalled hands.1

ScottyZ

1Unless there is some other rule that has been triggered, such as "show one, shoe all"

(Okay, that was a pretty amusing typo, so it can stay.)

oic...cool

shoe all

UglyJimStudly

literation wrote:

I believe when you have firm suspicion of collusion.

It's almost useless for detecting collusion, and I've never seen it used for that purpose, regardless of the historical reason for the rule. Nowadays, it's mostly a way for fish to self-identify - more than 90% of people who ask to see hands just aren't very good at poker, and have little concept of what hands somebody could be holding at the showdown. So they ask. It used to bug me a bit, until I noticed that the people who most often ask to see my hands are the ones with almost no ability to put me on a hand; now anytime somebody asks, I'm happy that they've just identified themselves as a chip donor.

literation

UglyJimStudly wrote:

Nowadays, it's mostly a way for fish to self-identify - more than 90% of people who ask to see hands just aren't very good at poker,

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.  There was one dirty guy in a 2/5 at Rama who asked to see the cards.  I'm usually leery of the stinky ones.