Hand for discussion
This week’s hand for discussion. I will put the initial post here, the discussion is at PokerForum.ca in the Ask Dave section.
Two tables remain in a field of 450. There are 8 people at your table. Blinds are 1000/2000.
Rate the play of the following players:
PLAYER ABC with a stack of 20,000 posts the big blind
PLAYER NOP with a stack of 75,000 raises to 6100 with 6-6 from under-the-gun. This player has played a lot of hands. Likes to enter the pot with a little raise and has made a few “iffy†calls against all-in players.
PLAYER XYZ, immediately to the left of ABC, with a stack of 18,000 raises to 10200. This player has not played as many pots as NOP. He appears quite conservative.
All fold to ABC who moves in 20,000 with A-Ko. Like XYZ he has not played that many pots. Fairly conservative and has been nursing a small stack for some time.
NOP calls.
XZY calls all-in.
As a side note, which player am I?
Two tables remain in a field of 450. There are 8 people at your table. Blinds are 1000/2000.
Rate the play of the following players:
PLAYER ABC with a stack of 20,000 posts the big blind
PLAYER NOP with a stack of 75,000 raises to 6100 with 6-6 from under-the-gun. This player has played a lot of hands. Likes to enter the pot with a little raise and has made a few “iffy†calls against all-in players.
PLAYER XYZ, immediately to the left of ABC, with a stack of 18,000 raises to 10200. This player has not played as many pots as NOP. He appears quite conservative.
All fold to ABC who moves in 20,000 with A-Ko. Like XYZ he has not played that many pots. Fairly conservative and has been nursing a small stack for some time.
NOP calls.
XZY calls all-in.
As a side note, which player am I?
Comments
stp
Cheers
Magi
I don't think you are either NOP and XYZ, since they make a couple of simple errors.
Player NOP opening for a raise with 66 seems "iffy".
The real mistake by NOP is calling the all-in re-raise. This is not a hand you want to take up against 2 players (note that XYZ is pot committed) who have each shown strength, and when you have a comfortable stack yourself. It's too likely that you're up against a higher pair here, and even in your best case scenario (say, 3 combined overcards), your pot equity is not huge. It's a high variance play that the 66 does not need to make.
Player XYZ's min raise is just silly. All-in or fold.
Player ABC should also realize that he will probably end up against 2 callers, since NOP makes "iffy calls of all-in players", and XYZ is already too far into this pot. While this hand's showdown performance isn't too far removed from the 66, the stack size here is key. At 10*BB, and with a hand as good as AKo, it's time for ABC to make a
move.
This is a great example of how you should be willing to make a slim EV & high variance play as the short stack (AKo) but not as the big stack (66). A lot of people think this is the other way around.
ScottyZ
Not really. Min-raising is still silly.
But of "All-in or fold", I'm choosing all-in. (Therefore, a pot-committing min-raise is not outrageous.)
ScottyZ
Doesn't since I already had that pegged!  :D
What was interesting to me, afterwards, is that if XYZ has moved all in, I might have folded. This is why I spent time on the hand. Moving in or not moving in, my play with A-K is right, or not. It was an interesting psychological fact that I noticed.
ScottyZ very smart fellow
They are similar hands in the fact that both will frequently end up in coin-toss type results. (That is, ~33% showdown win percentage in a 3-way pot.)
They are very different in terms of domination.
What sort of (legitimate1 raising) hands does 66 dominate? 22-55. What sort of hands dominate the 66? 77-AA.
What sort of hands does the AKo dominate? Any Ace. What sort of hands dominate the AKo? KK-AA.
In a situation involving short (but not micro) stacked all-in players, the AKo seems to be in much better shape than the 66.
ScottyZ
1That is, legitimate from the point of view of a short stack (or something similar, such as a large stack raising into short stacked blinds).
The first one is on a pair or some high cards.
The second player is clearly bad from your description and minraises. Now, A bad player minraising to me means one of two things; AA, or a hand he wants to isolate with (read: midpair) but is willing to fold to a big enough reraise. You don't have enough to fold him here, but still. BB has an easy reraise here if there's any chance of getting it heads up with either of the two players. If not, he's still even money against a smaller pair or a dominated big-card-hand, meaning he wins the pot slightly better than 1/3 of the time.
66, IMO, is terrible for calling the reraise.
Most importantly, if you do play the AK, it's gotta be all in, no question. You can not call for half your stack except in one situation I like to use against certain tight players: A stop 'n go.
You don't have much time to wait for a better spot to triple your chips. take the high variance gamble and put yourself in a position to make money.
If i was on a short bankroll, however, I'd be more inclined to fold and try to limp into the cash.
EDIT: I'm late. fuck it. scotty z nice post.
What other hands dominate AK?
Does that make any sense? Maybe only to me...
Dominate: To hold a better hand such that the underdog has 3 outs or less to win. i.e. AK vs. AQ. QJ vs. QT. KK vs. AK. the better hand is usually in the 2.5-1 or 3-1 favourite range. Very very generally, the only hands that are bigger favourites preflop are overpairs (TT vs. 76) and the biggest preflop mismatch, matched pairs (TT vs. T9 or KK vs KT) are usually in the 8-1 or 9-1 range.
Great definition BTW.