Easy Poker Question, I am sure
They guys and I had our monthly table poker game last night. We usually play dealers choice, but for the last couple of outings have been playing 2 hours of holdem tournament style, so we are pretty new to community card poker.
Question 1:
The board shows 5 spades to the Ace. Player 1 has a pocket spade which is higher than the lowest spade on the board. Player 2 had a pocket spade lower than the lowest spade onthe board, and player 3 had no pocket spade.
The guys said the pot is split between the 3 remaining because they all have a flush to the Ace.
I said that player 1's 5 best spades beats the other players 5 best spades. I was over ruled, and the pot was split.
Who is right?
Question 2: (more general poker betting question)
If everyone on the river checks, who shows their cards first?
I said the player closet to the dealer (first to check) would show first. Everyone else said everyone shows at same time.
What's the correct way?
Thanks
dig
Question 1:
The board shows 5 spades to the Ace. Player 1 has a pocket spade which is higher than the lowest spade on the board. Player 2 had a pocket spade lower than the lowest spade onthe board, and player 3 had no pocket spade.
The guys said the pot is split between the 3 remaining because they all have a flush to the Ace.
I said that player 1's 5 best spades beats the other players 5 best spades. I was over ruled, and the pot was split.
Who is right?
Question 2: (more general poker betting question)
If everyone on the river checks, who shows their cards first?
I said the player closet to the dealer (first to check) would show first. Everyone else said everyone shows at same time.
What's the correct way?
Thanks
dig
Comments
Question 2: I believe it would go in order starting with the first person to the left of the dealer, and continuing clockwise. But I could be wrong here.
djw (and you) are correct. Use all 5 (but not all 7) cards in order from high to low if necessary to break ties. The flush AKT53 beats the flush AKT52 for exactly the same reason that QQ99A beats QQ99K. The *only* exception to this is that 5432A loses to any other straight (e.g. KQJT9) because the Ace here is considered to count as a low card.
This is a house rule, but what djw said is the most common way to do it. Also, this is how every online site I've played at does it.
The only alternative I've ever heard of (and I've never seen this used in practice myself) is the person making the last aggressive bet in *any* round must show first. This is more complicated since it may be hard to remember back to previous rounds.
It might also be a possible house rule that all players must show on a checked last round.
Be sure to note the difference here. There is only one correct answer to question #1 since this is an absolute rule of poker, but the answer to question #2 (though fairly standard) may vary depending on the rules of the house you're playing at.
ScottyZ
I was sitting there waiting to muck my ace high once someone showed a pair but neither player made a move to do so ... the other player said I had to show first and I said that I didn't think I had to because he was in early position, but all I had was Ace high (which I showed). I didn't win the pot.
Afterwards I went and asked the floorperson what the ruling was and she indicated it was the last person to make a bet ... hmmm interesting I said.
In one poker book I read they told you to ask the floor for a book of their rules if you are unfamiliar with the rules ... I did this but they actually didn't have one - LOL ...
In the latter case, the dealer even said something like "Show your cards, sir" and the opponent took a look at the board (but not my exposed hand) and *still* mucked it. He had flopped bottom pair (which was good), but I guess his two pair draw didn't get there.
Also, in both cases, some complete idiot at the table asked to see the mucked hand. This is allowed of course, but all it accomplished was slowing down the game. Suddenly my opponent with a mucked, untabled hand feels entitled to the pot for some reason, so the floor has to be called over.
In case you're wondering, I wasn't trying any kind of angle shooting in these cases. I just like to show my hand right away to get the game moving along instead of waiting for everyone to sit there playing the "I don't want to show my hand" game. It was just a nice bonus to win a couple of pots with busted draws. 8)
In a different (and stranger) example of this kind of thing, I had TT heads-up vs. my opponents 99 and I had been betting the whole way with the board showing a Q and undercards. On the river a 9 comes and I tapped the table for a check, and the opponent somewhat quickly tossed his cards across the betting line. The dealer quickly mucked his cards, and pushed me the pot. The opponent called for the floor frantically saying he had mucked his cards thinking that there were no opponents left, that he had 99, and he then accused me of always hiding my cards (which at this point were still face down, protected by a chip, and clearly visible to all). For reasons I don't understand, the *floor* then asked to see the mucked hand (99), and then after another minute or two still decided to award me the pot (without me having ever shown my cards to this point). The guy then stormed away from the table, and after he had left I finally (voluntarily) showed my TT to the rest of the table, mainly because this hand had gotten so weird that I just wanted to show everyone that there was nothing fishy going on on my part.
It was the most satisfying experience I have ever had when being rivered. 8)
ScottyZ
Well my opponent didn't open his hand so the dealer said you have to show sir and he mucked it instead of showing LOL ... naturally I took the pot and _didn't_ show. The idea was if this guy is going to make this mistake I might as well let him continue doing it.
Another hand where I actually showed my hand and won was where I had something like JT and the board came AKJ. I had bet the flop and he called, bet the turn and he called, finally with the board now AAKKJ I checked the river and he checked behind me. Naturally I showed my hand right away and he looked at it and mucked (I was playing the board).
The dealer just shrugged and mucked the hand. After the next hand was completed he said to the guy what had happened and that he had to muck the hand, but in the future he should always show his hand.
Amazing. This happened to me once at Brantford. Though he bet the turn and I called with a flush draw. I had an 8 high and no flush on the river and checked after him. He didn't wait and chucked his hand immediately after I checked! I guess I was such a rock that he figured I must have him beat.
Flop comes A54 - A bets pot, B calls
Turn comes Q - A bets pot, B calls
River comes J - A bets pot, B calls
B shows his hand first ... 86 for an eight high and it takes down the rather large pot. He had put A on the up&down straight draw (which he did have 76) and won it with 8 high.
After playing with B for a while I realize he makes a lot of these "plays" which enables him to grow a monster stack, but always be at the felt by the end of the night. Still a very amazing hand.
It really depends on whether putting the opponent on 76 (or 63) was a genuine read, or just a hunch. 8)
ScottyZ
There were a couple of times I made a nice call on someone with a very bad hand. Both times in an underground $3-6 game I called someone on the river with J-high and both times I won. More info:
This was a guy that would bet any pair on the flop and if it was checked around he would bet anything on the turn. He just couldn't stand to let it go free if you know what I mean.
In both situations the board was fairly high (AKx) and the turn card paired the board. It was definitely unlikly he had anything.
Why didn't I raise? Well on the turn the reason is simple, I had nothing and he would definitely not fold. Basically if my jack-high was good it not only had to be good on the turn but I had to not get unlucky on the river.
Anyway in both situations he bet out again on the river. In both he said "your good" and I said "I don't know about that ... jack-high". And in both situations he went crazy!! Basically he was a mega-tilter and couldn't believe I would call him with jack high.
One time I had JT so I said to him ... ya but I have the nut jack! that just set him off more. LOL
Yeah, I remember that. Amazing hand! Against A no less. There is a problem with this approach when over done. Sometimes the crap you have can't beat a bluff. LOL.