$100/$200 Pokerstars Question
Hi everyone.
I regularly play at Pokerstars now, mostly ring games and some SNGs... ring games around $5/$10 usually, sometimes $10/$20 if I am feeling spunky, lol. Anyways, my question is this. Alot of the time you see a $100/$200 cash game Holdem going on at Stars. There are usually 7-10 players during the daytime on weekdays, and on weeknights and weekends usually around 2-3 tables going of this limit whenever I check.
My question is this. You see some regulars playing in those games, and then some players that come and go, Im guessing they go because they get there clocks cleaned and run home with there tail between there legs. Is there just too many regulars to make this game profitable? Or can this game, at this limit and level still be beaten for a regular profit by a good player???? I would think it could be beaten otherwise why would there be players playing it regularly, right??? I mean obviously the swings are going to be bigger than in smaller limit games... but the question is can it be beaten regularly by a good player?
Thoughts on this would be extremely helpfull...
I regularly play at Pokerstars now, mostly ring games and some SNGs... ring games around $5/$10 usually, sometimes $10/$20 if I am feeling spunky, lol. Anyways, my question is this. Alot of the time you see a $100/$200 cash game Holdem going on at Stars. There are usually 7-10 players during the daytime on weekdays, and on weeknights and weekends usually around 2-3 tables going of this limit whenever I check.
My question is this. You see some regulars playing in those games, and then some players that come and go, Im guessing they go because they get there clocks cleaned and run home with there tail between there legs. Is there just too many regulars to make this game profitable? Or can this game, at this limit and level still be beaten for a regular profit by a good player???? I would think it could be beaten otherwise why would there be players playing it regularly, right??? I mean obviously the swings are going to be bigger than in smaller limit games... but the question is can it be beaten regularly by a good player?
Thoughts on this would be extremely helpfull...
Comments
Some people i know simply can't play in a real ram and jam type game. They don't have it in them to stay around and raise second pair, and know they may well be good.
These games from what i see tend to be a bit hyper-active. People push small edges to the limits and often will be more likely than in a 0.25/0.50 to call you down.
The question is if you're comfortable at 5/10 getting going at 10/20, why not work up to 15/30, 30/60 see how those go. I would also recommend trying out more short handed games, they will give you a better feel for what you may face in relation to agression and dealing with the fact that most pots will be contested heads-up
Yeah I definately will have to play some short handed, 6 max games. Just because, well like you said alot of the pots will be contested heads up, will smaller edges being pushed. Not to mention that during the daytime, sometimes there is only 6 players playing in the Pokerstars "big game" $100/$200.
I guess I look back on my post and think, well Daniel Negreanu plays all the time in a cash game with Doyle Brunson, Chau Giang, Berry Greenstein, Chip Reese, Gus Hansen, Jennifer Harman etc... and I mean he wouldnt be there at that high of level if it wasnt beatable. I guess what I am saying is that the game is definately beatable, just you have to be an all around good player, short handed, full handed and everything.
More replies please... :-)
The Stars $100-$200 game is a bit unique in that there is a barrier to entry into the game. You need to get in touch with Stars support before you can sit in this game. This doesn't sound like much, but it's enough of a hassle so that you probably won't get many players as you would like (if you were a strong player) taking one time shots at this particular limit.
I've always though that the highest possible limit* at a cardroom (either B&M or online) is prone to attracting some of the worst players. This may seem counter-intuitive (skill generally goes up as limits go up), but you're more likely to find people at the highest limit game specifically who aren't taking the game seriously because they have so much money that they would rather be playing a higher limit still.
Think of it as a regular $5-$10 player only having the choice to sit down at a maximum limit of $0.10-$0.20. Such a player will not play $0.10-$0.20 well, since he/she does not care about the stakes. The same goes for the multi-millionaire whale who sits online at the Stars $100-$200, or that dude sitting in the Bellagio high limit area who is bankrolled by some French-Canadian Diva.
Whether or not there is a skill differential, the enormous advantage of playing such high limits (online or B&M) is the house fee measured in terms if BB/100 hands. Someone playing $5-$10 or $10-$20 online roughly pays $30/100 in rake on average. Same amount if you're playing $100-$200. The difference is the amount in big bets. The $30 works out to 1.5BB/100 hands at $10-$20 (say), but a microscopic 0.15BB/100 hands at the $100-$200.
So, to make a post-rake profit** at $10-$20 you need to be considerably better than most of your opponents, wheras at $100-$200 you only need a small edge to be a winning player.
If there is a "should I try $100-$200 right now myself?" sub-text to the OP, I would say, no you shouldn't. At least not yet. Work your way up slowly and carefully through the limits. The $30-$60 to $100-$200 jump alone is quite staggering, being more than a triple up in limits.
In most cases, it takes a long, long, long time to develop the things you need for success at high limit poker: knowledge of poker strategy, rationality & objectivity, immunity to tilt, and the proper bankroll. All of these, of course, being things that poker players often find it easy to convince themselves that they have without actually having them. :cool:
ScottyZ
*Which, again, is a somewhat strange notion at Stars. Is the "highest limit" $100-$200 which is technically so, or is it $30-$60 which is the highest possible limit that a recreational/casual/one-shot player could sit in?
**Of course, the only kind of profit which really matters.
Your opinion is one of the most valuable opinions here at the forum, and I take your advice and hede-da-limit to heart. Of course tho I value everyones opinions, dont want to dig myself a hole here so I will stop lol.
Anyways, right now... no I wasnt looking at taking a shot at the $100/$200 game. Not yet anyways. Like you said, I must have the proper bankroll, mindset, knowledge of the game, psychology and tilt-proof(possibly the most important factor) before I even get started in that game.
So lets see, $200 x 500 BB is = $100,000 Bankroll.
No impossible, but along way to go for me yet...
Basically the post was to find out what it meant. Is the $100/$200 game profitable? Like can you sit at it, everyday, and make a good profit from it, continually win at it. And after reading your post ScottyZ, I do believe that it is profitable. Why? There are a couple reasons.
#1: I dont believe that all the players that play at this limit are good poker players, I mean they might be decent, but not good or great. Why? Because of the reason you pointed out, rich people who have tons of money... just wanting to play high stakes online poker. I actually think there are quite a few players in this game, especially on weeknights, and weekends that fall into this category.
PS: WATCH OUT FOR THE PLAYER NAMED DONKEY, HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING.
$2: The rake is extremely small in this game, which statistically helps you make a profit as well... which again you pointed out to me ScottyZ, thank you.
So there are some more of my opinions, anyone else have any comments? Even more from ScottyZ, that would be great. All Aces, you have anything to add? Anything you want to repeat? LOL!
Donkey on stars is a tourney pro. VEry nice guy from Australia.
The stars 1-2 is a hot potato really. I live with some guys that play it every day and i watch them, and cover for them when they are busy, My crew usually plays shorthanded and are for sure up on this game.
From what I have witnessed from them the swings are incredible. Up 15k in two hours then the next day down 16k in four hours. It is EXTREMLY mentally draining, as the blatant disregard for money one must have to play these is alomst incomprehensible. The highs of winning 10k contrasted to the low of losing 10k is very tough to deal with, no matter how rich one is.
It is possible to beat this game, but compared to the big games on other sites , stars is very tough.
It is true, that in many of these big games i watch, many of the players are unbelievably bad. so bad they would get chewed to bits in a 10 20 game. These are the rich flounderers, or wannabee pros taking a shot that can't afford it and this shows in their subsequent game play.
As u mentioned there are usually alot of he same players playin this game which makes it weird. Basically because they just swing back and forth and wait for wach other to go on tilt. I think the best startegy that my friends use is to essentially hit and run, never playin longer then 3 hours in a session.
I just asked Exclusive for one sentence to contribute to this piece and he said "the games are sometimes good"
for wat its worth
peace out
hg
You live with a couple of these guys? Sweet! Do you live with Exclusive????
And yeah I was thinking about the "hit and go" strategy at that limit as well. Play for about 3-4 hours and if you are up a decent amount, quit for the day and come back the next day. Do you or Exclusive have MSN Messenger or AIM, I would surely like to talk to you guys....
As well as Donkey, he is a tourney pro? I see him playing high limit turbo SNGs all the time, sometimes the $1-$200 game, but alot of SNGs. Is he a live tourney pro, or online STT and MTT pro? Was just wondering....
Get back to me, peace.