should I slow down

JuiceManJuiceMan
in General Poker Chat
I hold KJ diamonds UTG, raise it to 6 LP calls bb call. Flop comes K 4 8 rainbow. check to me i bet both call, turn comes 9 check check i bet both call. river comes 8. Now i always tend to check here cuz i am scared to be reraised. I have been thinking though that this is pretty stupid. Should i bet and wait to see if i am reraised? I have really been working on improving my game and any advice here would help. My thinking is always being scared of puting in 6 more just to be reraised. i think that in limit alot of ppl will stay in with middle pair in hopes of hitting a set or two pair. What should i do when this situation comes to me?
I checked both also did and had ace rag no pair. Which makes me wonder why guys hold ace rag in such high regards?

Comments

  • derksenderksen
    Seeing as that you are UTG, I would definitely bet for 2 reasons:

    1. By the looks of it, you most likely have the pot with KK and a decent kicker after the flop. You haven't seen a raise representing the K or 2 pair. If I had a king or 2 pair, I would have raised you for sure (to see where I was at, and ditch the chasers)!!

    2. I'd also bet to push out the possibility of somebody betting into me. If you check and receive a large bet, I imagine you would fold out of fear. If you stayed in, you would have to commit more chips when there is a possibility you may be beat. Bet first and watch the reactions!

    Therefore, I believe that betting is the only option.... wait one more reason I would bet:

    3. If I was your opponent and noticed your hesitance and contemplation, I would bet into you regardless of what I had. Don't give your opponent the chance to do this. Push them out.

    Let me play out a quick scenario...

    Opponent is holding K8 suited,
    "Flop comes K 4 8 rainbow"
    I might check raise in early position, but bet in late position. I want to take the pot down and get rid of the chasers now. It is already a decent size pot with 3 bets and callers. I wouldn't just call with this if I was bet into. I would demand more chips from you.

    Also, why would anybody holding something other than K, 4 or an 8 continue with this pot. Possibly to bluff?? The only hands you fear are AK KQ K4 K8 (preflop) K9 (turn). With no raises, no straight or flush chances, you have to bet.

    (side note, if you are under the gun, how come there are 2 checks on the turn beofre your bet??? doesn't add up. if you are UTG, BB checks, then your turn to act then LP.... correct??)
  • derksenderksen
    one more thing... you fear a reraise on the river? I wouldn't. If you're going to get reraised, I think it would have happenend on the turn. Also, a reraise gives you info... possibly a good hand, less chance of a bluff.
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Which makes me wonder why guys hold ace rag in such high regards?

    Probably the same people that open raise KJs out of position..

    You havent given us enough information about the hand...

    1) What game you playing? 1/2 NL? 5/10? $100/$200 ? Online or B&M?
    2) What is your table composition.. How many players seeing the flop? Lots of raising? Lots of chasers? Everyone folding the blinds?
    3) What about the BB? What type of player is he? Tight? Loose? Passive? Agressive?
    My thinking is always being scared of puting in 6 more just to be reraised.

    If you are really scared of betting because of the dollar size of the bets, drop down to a smaller NL game.
  • JuiceManJuiceMan
    Didnt realize how little i gave you. It was limit 3/6 on PP. Shorthanded table, I raised UTG becuase i had been playin with these same guys for about an hour and the only ppl who call an early position raise are guys with Ace hands, like ace rag mainly, any stronger ace hands such as AKAQAJ or big pocket pairs over JJ would encure a reraise. just about everytime. this is why i figured when there was no reraise on the flop my hand was most likely best. Cuz like u said AK or KQ or two pair would reraise my bet, plus K9 on turn would reraise. My fear of the river is a guy holdin A8. he catches his 8 on the flop, then his set on the river maybe. I had seen it happen a billion times that day. The guys would play A rag and catch bottom or middle pair and call to the river tryin to hit two pair or a set. So when that 8 hit should I bet just to see where i am at? That was what i was asking.
    As for the BB, He was like everyone else at the table would get in with nothin and try and get lucky. Also i noticed raising on this table gave me alot of credit if the flop came all little cards. Even if i missed on the flop, if i would come out betting i could ususally pick it up. Thanks for your input and any more u can give BBC Z.
  • ScoobyDScoobyD
    I don't think the question is if you have the best hand (you probably do). Do you have the best hand if you get called? About all you can beat is maybe a suited K with no kicker, K-T, or maybe a smaller pocket pair. How aggressive are your opponents? How loose are they with their river calls? If they are super loose with what they will call with I might bet for value, but otherwise, I'd probably check-call here (which might even entice a bluff from one of the players, depending on how aggressive they are). As it turned out, I don't think you really missed out by not betting, as it's highly unlikely you're going to get a call from A-high.
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    I'm not a shorthanded expert, so I won't comment on the preflop but it seems fine to me..

    I'd be weary of any previous advice given in this thread.. I think everyone assumed it was NL..
    So when that 8 hit should I bet just to see where i am at

    Never bet 'to see where you are at'.. You don't actually get much information when someone raises anyway. Always have a real reason.. In this case, you are value betting the river because you have the best hand over the long term. Call a raise.
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    If they are super loose with what they will call with I might bet for value, but otherwise, I'd probably check-call here (which might even entice a bluff from one of the players, depending on how aggressive they are). As it turned out, I don't think you really missed out by not betting, as it's highly unlikely you're going to get a call from A-high.

    You have to bet that river and I think not betting it is a big mistake. Your opponents have shown no strength other than calling bets. Practically every pot I've ever won with top pair involves three streets of getting called down. If you fail to bet that river, you miss out on 1/3 of your profit for that hand.
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    I would bet the river. You will get called by a lot of hands when it's shorthanded, incuding Ace-high.

    Check and call is also worth considering if you type LP as being very aggressive. Howard Lederer calls this an "offensive check", and it's a play I often use playing shorthanded. It not only wins you an extra bet from a habitual bluffer, but also sends the important message for future hands that you checking does not necessarily mean weakness.
    Which makes me wonder why guys hold ace rag in such high regards?

    It's a shorthanded game, so Ace-high is a somewhat reasonable holding.

    ScottyZ
  • JuiceManJuiceMan
    thanks alot
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