I have another hand for analysis...

Yayiwin

Did i misplay my hand here?Should i have bet more on that flop?

Note*Player who won hand said i didnt play it right.

Im not sure where i went wrong.But some of you that play 5/10 NL on UB or PS will recognize the name of the player that beat me here.I have tons of respect for him.He's one of the best players i have ever played against cash games or tournies.

Was he right that i misplayed my hand or did i just get rivered?
All comments welcome. Thx Yayiwn

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Game Started on Thu Mar 17, 2005 @ 22:07
Cascade - Holdem - NL 500 - Real Money - Hand #59357885

**Hand #59357885 begins**
Tomcollins receives the dealer button
Rwaldo posts small blind 2
Buttercheeks posts big blind 5
You are dealt[Ks,Kc]
Iplayragz calls 5
Firestopper raises 15
Ullrdog folds
AK33 folds
Tomcollins calls 15
Rwaldo folds
Buttercheeks folds
Iplayragz calls 10
Flop is dealt [8s,6c,2h]
Iplayragz checks
Firestopper bets 35
Tomcollins calls 35
Iplayragz folds
Turn is dealt [5s]
Firestopper goes all in 0
Firestopper bets 225
Tomcollins calls 225
River is dealt [9c]
Tomcollins shows a straight Nine high
Tomcollins's pocket cards were [7d,7h]
Firestopper shows a pair of Kings
Firestopper's pocket cards were [Ks,Kc]
Tomcollins wins $569 real money from main pot
**Hand #59357885 ends**


**

BBC Z

Note*Player who won hand said i didnt play it right.

Player who won the hand is full of it... He calls a bet larger than the size of the pot on the turn with a draw. Bzzzt incorrect. He put you on two overcards and sucked out against you. He was lucky.

Chugs

The other player is wrong, but i would say that you under bet on the flop.

I realize it may have made no difference, but i think your bet on the flop had to be for at least the size of the pot if not larger. It should give the message, this is my pot, leave.

ScottyZ

Note*Player who won hand said i didnt play it right.

What is this, the chat equivalent of a weak lead?

Maybe he thought he would throw this thought out there so people would fail to notice that he's the one who played it like a donkey.

I agree that he probably read you for the busted overcards. By "didn't play it right", I'm guessing he meant, "didn't play it like I expected." That is, he probably reads your making a smallish (but not too small) bet on the flop and big overbet on the turn as some kind of desparation bluff.

When you bring your ego along for the ride when analysing hands, it's natural to associate deviations from your reads to be bad plays.

Your opponent just made a bad read.

Finally, getting away from the results, is this a reasonable way to play KK without knowing your opponents' hole cards? I think so. On the turn, moving in is fine when a couple of backdoor draws materialize. If I have run into a set here, I honestly don't think I'd be able to get away from it, so I prefer just moving in myself with the Kings when the pot gets big enough.

On the other hand, is this a reasonable way to play 77 not knowing your opponents' hole cards? I can't see what's wrong with folding it on the flop. Is my understanding here too simple minded? Is NL all about making "gutsy" reads and thinking the 77 is good here? Is the flop call with 77 here just an attempt to set up a future bluff? Is the backdoor open-ended straight draw any kind of a factor?

ScottyZ

sweetjimmi

I think that Tom C. must have put you on overcards (obviously not matching overcards) when calling the flop bet. Then when you moved on the turn I think you confirmed (in his mind) his read. The other thing to take into consideration is your image at the table...would he be able picture you playing a complete bluff like this? If so you played the hand perfectly and got rivered.

I think I fold the 77 on the turn pretty easily, unless I think you're running a total bluff (which is what I think Tom C. did). I don't think you did anything much wrong here. I don't think I can get away from this hand very easily if I'm you...you would have to be near 100% sure your opponent has a set to fold. Though you don't say what you thought he had at any point. Did you ever put him in a box?

As far as the comments I wouldn't worry too much about them I think Scotty hit the nail on the head.

magithighs

I agree with ScottyZ (not the fake one) on the thinking of the other player. **

What I ask myself in these tough hands I lose is "What do I want the other player to do?"

Do you

a) want a low variance play and prefer the other player to fold on the flop
b) want the other player to make mistakes, willing to live with some variance, but are not willing to live with a high variance result
c) not care about variance and really want to push positive EV plays to the maximum


Each option brings about a different course of action.

a) I would bet a bit more (4X BB) pre-flop and check-raise the flop as this shows the most power and will put a LOT of pressure on the player to fold right on the flop, unless they have two-pair or a set
b) play the same pre-flop, flop, but at the turn bet 10-20%+pot or check-raise the turn if you know you can count on this guy to bet
c) exact same play


Cheers
Magi

** Follow up question. What kind of betting action do you go for when you flop a monster, say a straight on a rainbow board or a set?