Stinking multi-table tournament ... (aka I stink) 1/2
Ok I have two hands that determined my demise in an online tournament last night. I will be honest, I am really struggling with the variation required in playing tournaments vs. money games. Personally I think it is a risk vs. reward situation -- in live money I would love to get all my money in as a 51:49 favourite and let the chips fall where they may (I can always cash in more) but in a tournament I can't take those risks and I really would prefer to get myself into situations where I am a much large favourite. I will post the one hand in this thread and create another thread for my second hand (this gives me two posts and puts me on my way to getting my free subscription).
Nothing like a little scam action to get your motor running. :P
I am on the button and two people limp in. I have QhJh and have $1200 in chips. This is below the average stack (which is about $1800). I want to see a flop with this hand so I call the big blind ($100). Should I be risking any of my chips when the blinds are his high? Not sure, but my table is rather passive so I figure I can see the flop and see how things go. I have a very tight image to this point (from the fact that I have played two hands in total after over an hour of play and neither hand went to showdown).
Both blinds call and the flop comes KTx with two hearts. Dang I flopped up & down with a flushdraw (2nd nut). Everyone checks to me on the button. In a money game this is a no brainer I make a pot-sized bet and try to pick it up there, and if I don't I figure I am likely to be a favourite in the hand and am certainly willing to put all my chips into the pot.
Both blinds fold and one of the guys in the middle goes all-in for $25 more than my bet .. obviously I call.
He has AJ (not the hand I wanted to see to be honest) and when it goes brick-brick he picksup the pot with ace high.
Should I have checked on the flop and tried to get my draw for free? I think my play is right for a money game just not sure if it is right in a tournament. Obviously I hate his hand because I can no longer make a pair to win and he takes away one of my straight cards leaving me with a mere 14 outs twice.
This hand puts me in rough shape because it drops me to just over $500 chips and blinds of $50-100 to content with. Stinking.
Nothing like a little scam action to get your motor running. :P
I am on the button and two people limp in. I have QhJh and have $1200 in chips. This is below the average stack (which is about $1800). I want to see a flop with this hand so I call the big blind ($100). Should I be risking any of my chips when the blinds are his high? Not sure, but my table is rather passive so I figure I can see the flop and see how things go. I have a very tight image to this point (from the fact that I have played two hands in total after over an hour of play and neither hand went to showdown).
Both blinds call and the flop comes KTx with two hearts. Dang I flopped up & down with a flushdraw (2nd nut). Everyone checks to me on the button. In a money game this is a no brainer I make a pot-sized bet and try to pick it up there, and if I don't I figure I am likely to be a favourite in the hand and am certainly willing to put all my chips into the pot.
Both blinds fold and one of the guys in the middle goes all-in for $25 more than my bet .. obviously I call.
He has AJ (not the hand I wanted to see to be honest) and when it goes brick-brick he picksup the pot with ace high.
Should I have checked on the flop and tried to get my draw for free? I think my play is right for a money game just not sure if it is right in a tournament. Obviously I hate his hand because I can no longer make a pair to win and he takes away one of my straight cards leaving me with a mere 14 outs twice.
This hand puts me in rough shape because it drops me to just over $500 chips and blinds of $50-100 to content with. Stinking.
Comments
Also non-trivial is that he has a 3 out re-draw to the nut straight.
I believe with 14 outs on the flop, you are close to even money and probably a tiny favorite. The re-draw may push you to being a little worse off, but I've got to think you're at worst, only a very *tiny* dog here.
A straight (open ended) and flush draw is generally a small heads-up favorite even against one pair higher than your cards, so I don't see anything wrong with betting this flop for value. Because you are (generally) risk averse in tournaments, you also don't mind simply picking up the pot here so you don't have to face the 50% of the times or so when your draw doesn't get there. It's a good play to get your money in here. Even though you might not be a heavy favorite, the fact that you are betting gives you some extra equity in that your opponents may fold hands that will give you a hard time.
What the heck is your opponent thinking here calling you with AJ? Don't tell me he reads you for exactly QJ (probably the only non-steal hand you could have that he even comes close to having a chance against). A pretty brutal play by your opponent here I think.
ScottyZ
Yes I agree with what you have said. And I don't want to focus the discussion on my opponent, obviously he played his hand poorly here. I guess I am more worried about my decision to play this hand at all, and then on the flop trying to pickup the pot. I find myself in these situations a lot in tournaments and I just find that my normal money game play often does me in.
Would it have been better to merely check the flop and try to get my draw for free rather than commiting any more chips?
lol
No, but he moderates this part of the forum, so he can bitch slap my pre-emptive posts out of his hood if he so desires.
Actually, I often do wait until Dave posts a response first in his own section. I just felt particularly aggressive today or something.
I definitely like betting here over checking. With a worse draw (e.g. just a flush draw by itself), checking might be the better play, but I really like betting here because you're possibly a favorite (though probably a small favorite only) if you get it heads-up, and there's the added possibility of just taking the pot down immediately.
ScottyZ
I haven't looked at ScottyZ's answer yet so you are getting my unabridged answer.
I don't mind you call here. I am certainly going to call or raise. If the situation is as you describe then I will seriously consider trying to take the pot right now. You have a good hand for a steal (suited connectors) and a raise to $400 might do it. Either or... call or raise.
I make the same play here. There is 500 in the pot. You have 1100 remaining. I put in a pot size bet hoping to take it right now. I am willing to put in ALL of my chips if I am raised. The only reason to NOT put it all in on the flop is to hopefully save some if you are called and then the turn and river miss you. You can fold and save 500.
My question to myself is usually "is there any fold equity in the hand?" In other words, can I win by having everyone else fold? IN the situation you describe it seems clear that there should have been some fold equity. On the other hand... you got called by a guy with a gutshot and one overcard which doesn't jive with your original description.
I probably woudl have raised pre-flop and then bet all-in on the flop. I think your play of the hand it OK though.
A few examples -- I raise all-in UTG with AA and get called by KT. A raise one off UTG with AdQd and get called by KT. Damn KT beats me a lot! LOL
The reason I choose the limp play is I want to make a hand before I commit more chips and it is unlikely my raise is going to pickup the pot.
Granted, if I was playing against the guys I play with regularly in live games I would have raise about 95% of the time.