Now you know I'm still open on this whole religious thing but that is really scare mongering and agitating. Measles and whether there is an outbreak or not really has nothing to do with religion. Any group who makes the conscious decision to not vaccinate is a potential outbreak. Just see the link below for the facts.
This is the most terrifying thing I've read all day:
"So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts,"
Coupling it with the irony dripping from...
"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," (says the guy telling you that you need to do God's will and be at church every Sunday to donate money, that he runs).
Secondly,
How fucking incredibly dumb is it that there are people in society that seriously weigh the opinions of the highly trained, expert medical field with years of factual (and therefore truthful, despite what the quote above says) evidence on par with a girl that got famous for such intellectual contributions as her boobs, and "The Bad Girl's Guide to Doing it Now"?
Admittedly a little overdramatic, but someone on her IMDB page called her a profiteering witch who kills children.... made me laugh.
Now you know I'm still open on this whole religious thing but that is really scare mongering and agitating. Measles and whether there is an outbreak or not really has nothing to do with religion. Any group who makes the conscious decision to not vaccinate is a potential outbreak. Just see the link below for the facts.
no offense comp, but did you read the article? just look at dr. taken quotes above if need be. definitely seems like there is some religious zealotry to blame in this specific case at least.
Okay, so these people are idiots with respect to vaccinations, and they happen to be religious. Can someone point me in the direction where anyone from the Church is saying that their Faith is what informs them to not vaccinate? There is the one quote from a Church member about God being a Healer, but I am talking about doctrine . . . The Pastor's words about Autism are troubling, but again, I am curious as to where these folks get the idea that God hates vaccines . . .
I think they get it from the internet and all the people who think that vaccines cause autism and a host of other ailments. They are on par with the nutters who think fluoridation is a government plot to turn people into mindless, sedated zombies.
Yeah that is sort of my point . . . the anti-vaccination meme is not so much a "religious" thing as it is a "stupid" thing. The fact that these folks also happen to be religious is just a bonus for folks like Mark and GTA.
The fact that these folks also happen to be religious is just a bonus for folks like Mark and GTA.
No no no.....there are many, many people who claim that God will heal their illnesses through prayer is the only form of treatment worth trying. Therefore: religious over stupidity IMO
No no no.....there are many, many people who claim that God will heal their illnesses through prayer is the only form of treatment worth trying. Therefore: religious over stupidity IMO
It's not that many Christians that believe this. You're talking about a small Christian sect called Christian Science that teach that spiritual healing can overcome disease. Even Jehovah's Witness do use doctors.
This particular group would run to the doctor if they had appendicitis or something like that. They only think that vaccines are dangerous.
It's not that many Christians that believe this. You're talking about a small Christian sect called Christian Science that teach that spiritual healing can overcome disease. Even Jehovah's Witness do use doctors.
This particular group would run to the doctor if they had appendicitis or something like that. They only think that vaccines are dangerous.
not a small christian sect. pentecostalism is a big group and they believe in that. read about aimee semple mcpherson (i had to in university )
Okay, so these people are idiots with respect to vaccinations, and they happen to be religious. Can someone point me in the direction where anyone from the Church is saying that their Faith is what informs them to not vaccinate? There is the one quote from a Church member about God being a Healer, but I am talking about doctrine . . . The Pastor's words about Autism are troubling, but again, I am curious as to where these folks get the idea that God hates vaccines . . .
1) google is your friend
2) why is it that the theist group keeps asking the atheist group to do all the research while the theists can just stick to their beliefs/opinions? do some research yourself. you really might learn something and maybe change an opinion
3) i don't think anyone in this thread was suggesting that the bible teaches that vaccinations are wrong. the point is that religious extremists use religion and god to promote their own views, hence making religion a bad thing.
and just to be nice, here's what they say about vaccinations:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Leviticus:19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen [plant] and woolen [animal] come upon thee.
Relevant reasons for God's warning in this regard includes the fact that bovine (cow) fetal serum is commonly used in the manufacturing process of vaccines. So are monkey kidney cells, chicken embryo parts, bacterial or viral genetic materials - RNA and DNA, as well as yeast and human proteins. Using the example of cows, bovine fetal serum is mixed with bacteria or viral particles, and other vaccine ingredients including toxic metals, such as mercury and aluminum, and immune destructive chemicals. Thus, proteins and genetic materials from the cattle, viruses, and bacteria are mixed before these particles are injected into you or your children. Once the vaccine ingredients, including foreign RNA and DNA, and genetically engineered bacteria and/or viruses, or their parts, enter your blood, they may cause genetic mutations of your cells. Then you have sown thy bloodstream 'with mingled seed' that not only taxes your immune system further, but may cause the development of cancer cells as well. These may go on to become full blown cancers, particularly in the presence of a weakened immune system made weak by vaccine 'adjuvents.'[/FONT]
not a small christian sect. pentecostalism is a big group and they believe in that. read about aimee semple mcpherson (i had to in university )
Was true at one time, but not anymore.
During the initial decades of the movement, Pentecostals thought it was sinful to take medicine or receive care from doctors.[43] Over time, Pentecostals moderated their views concerning medicine and doctor visits; however, a minority of Pentecostal churches continue to rely exclusively on prayer and divine healing.
1) google is your friend
2) why is it that the theist group keeps asking the atheist group to do all the research while the theists can just stick to their beliefs/opinions? do some research yourself. you really might learn something and maybe change an opinion.
Because I had other things to do last night . . . as I do tonight, as well. Sorry for bothering you . . .
3) i don't think anyone in this thread was suggesting that the bible teaches that vaccinations are wrong. the point is that religious extremists use religion and god to promote their own views, hence making religion a bad thing.
Then the fault lies with the crazies, no? To state otherwise is a bit of a leap of logic.
Yup . . . stupid beats Religion, as they are stretching the quote from Leviticus to the breaking point, if not beyond. the Bible says zilch about vaccination because the entire field had not been created yet (intelligently designed? SORRY). Attempting to stretch prohibitions against miscegenation, and guidelines for agriculture into a ban on vaccines is silly.
Did you know that the Muslim and Jewish texts surrounding dietary restrictions (no pork, etc) are virtually perfect guides for survival in desert climates (ie pork spoils very quickly without refrigeration, and is harder to tell when it has turned than, say, chicken).
Also, with respect to "promoting their own views" . . . everyone does that. That is why we have politics, and political parties, after all. I will accept religion as a bad thing as soon as we can agree that government is, too.
Because I had other things to do last night . . . as I do tonight, as well. Sorry for bothering you . . .
it's not the first time you've asked for info like this. it's not the first time i (or someone else) has provided it for you. and you aren't the only one who has done this. don't take offense to this. just do your due diligence before posting (if you want me and others to take your points more seriously).
Then the fault lies with the crazies, no? To state otherwise is a bit of a leap of logic.
oh, there are crazies everywhere, i agree completely. just seems that there are more in the religious circles for some reason. how many atheist groups do you see running around trying to get people to stop using vaccinations or other modern medicines, or starting wars against people with different beliefs, or the plethora of other crazy fights that fanatical theists start in the name of their God? i don't know of any. so, it is kind of an assumption on my part? sure, but one with evidence to suggest it.
Yup . . . stupid beats Religion, as they are stretching the quote from Leviticus to the breaking point, if not beyond. the Bible says zilch about vaccination because the entire field had not been created yet (intelligently designed? SORRY). Attempting to stretch prohibitions against miscegenation, and guidelines for agriculture into a ban on vaccines is silly.
that's the entire point this thread is making! religious fanatics take the bible and stretch the meanings to suggest whatever they want! and since it is God's word, people fucking believe these crazies! how are you not seeing that religion is a part of this issue? i'm not saying it's 100% to blame, but it sure exacerbates the problem. without the religion backing up what these crackpots are saying, no one would listen or give a shit. they'd just be some crazy nutbag yelling at people on the street.
Also, with respect to "promoting their own views" . . . everyone does that. That is why we have politics, and political parties, after all. I will accept religion as a bad thing as soon as we can agree that government is, too.
the difference between government and religion is insanely obvious and the two cannot be compared in this situation. political views and opinions are not divinely handed down from our God - they are man made and created by us. political views are allowed to be debated and changed - religious views are not. government was created to govern countries and societies - religious views were created to govern morality and spirituality. i could go on, but honestly, if you don't see the difference i think i just give up.
oh, there are crazies everywhere, i agree completely. just seems that there are more in the religious circles for some reason. how many atheist groups do you see running around trying to get people to stop using vaccinations or other modern medicines, or starting wars against people with different beliefs,
I was going to use the example of Quebec's pending charter banning religious symbols in the workplace as an example of atheists gone wild...
But then I remembered that the crucifix is still okay if it's not too big. Because you know, until it's at least X inches long, it's just a lower case t.
Religion is an excuse for people's lazy thinking, ignorance, misogyny, homophobia, etc etc.
I was going to use the example of Quebec's pending charter banning religious symbols in the workplace as an example of atheists gone wild...
But then I remembered that the crucifix is still okay if it's not too big. Because you know, until it's at least X inches long, it's just a lower case t.
is that actually atheists though? i highly doubt every person in the quebec government is an atheist. there are definitely theists who want the separation of church and state as well.
I have never, ever thought of it that way and now I don't think I'll ever be able see one again and not lol a little. If I ever describe it that way to my Mother in law.... It will not turn out well.
is that actually atheists though? i highly doubt every person in the quebec government is an atheist. there are definitely theists who want the separation of church and state as well.
lol little t
Anti-theists then . . .
The problem is not with the message (religion), often it is a problem with the messenger (the crazies).
Surely you would agree that our current Pope is charting a somewhat non-crazy path?
oh, there are crazies everywhere, i agree completely. just seems that there are more in the religious circles for some reason. how many atheist groups do you see running around trying to get people to stop using vaccinations or other modern medicines, or starting wars against people with different beliefs, or the plethora of other crazy fights that fanatical theists start in the name of their God? i don't know of any. so, it is kind of an assumption on my part? sure, but one with evidence to suggest it.
I don't see it as the fault of religion itself. Take away religion and you would still have sociopaths, con men, and wannabe cult leaders trying to influence people and promote irrational views. People are just easily influenced if you wrap your con in religion. Same with patriotism. How about the militias, domestic terrorists, the McVeys; who believe the government is coming after them and figure they need to strike first? Same phenomenon if you ask me.
The anti-fluoridationists to my knowledge are not religious in nature. They're conspiracy theorists who have no scientific evidence to prove their assertion that fluoridation is harmful. And they're succeeding in getting municipalities to end a practice that has proven to be beneficial, and with 50 years of positive data behind it.
Comments
Measles Outbreaks 2013 - Recent Outbreaks and Exposures
This is the most terrifying thing I've read all day:
"So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts,"
Coupling it with the irony dripping from...
"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," (says the guy telling you that you need to do God's will and be at church every Sunday to donate money, that he runs).
Secondly,
How fucking incredibly dumb is it that there are people in society that seriously weigh the opinions of the highly trained, expert medical field with years of factual (and therefore truthful, despite what the quote above says) evidence on par with a girl that got famous for such intellectual contributions as her boobs, and "The Bad Girl's Guide to Doing it Now"?
Admittedly a little overdramatic, but someone on her IMDB page called her a profiteering witch who kills children.... made me laugh.
Mark
no offense comp, but did you read the article? just look at dr. taken quotes above if need be. definitely seems like there is some religious zealotry to blame in this specific case at least.
I don't know that I agree with that.
No no no.....there are many, many people who claim that God will heal their illnesses through prayer is the only form of treatment worth trying. Therefore: religious over stupidity IMO
Why do you think I said it?
Religion is a tool, like a gun or the internet. It can be used for good or bad depending on the nature of the person using it.
But you know, training them to baa properly and what not comes in handy.
Mark
It's not that many Christians that believe this. You're talking about a small Christian sect called Christian Science that teach that spiritual healing can overcome disease. Even Jehovah's Witness do use doctors.
This particular group would run to the doctor if they had appendicitis or something like that. They only think that vaccines are dangerous.
Hey, hey, hey...that's going a bit too far (pirate guy winking that I don't know how to do)
not a small christian sect. pentecostalism is a big group and they believe in that. read about aimee semple mcpherson (i had to in university
1) google is your friend
2) why is it that the theist group keeps asking the atheist group to do all the research while the theists can just stick to their beliefs/opinions? do some research yourself. you really might learn something and maybe change an opinion
3) i don't think anyone in this thread was suggesting that the bible teaches that vaccinations are wrong. the point is that religious extremists use religion and god to promote their own views, hence making religion a bad thing.
and just to be nice, here's what they say about vaccinations:
Was true at one time, but not anymore.
did not know that. thanks.
Yup . . . stupid beats Religion, as they are stretching the quote from Leviticus to the breaking point, if not beyond. the Bible says zilch about vaccination because the entire field had not been created yet (intelligently designed? SORRY). Attempting to stretch prohibitions against miscegenation, and guidelines for agriculture into a ban on vaccines is silly.
Did you know that the Muslim and Jewish texts surrounding dietary restrictions (no pork, etc) are virtually perfect guides for survival in desert climates (ie pork spoils very quickly without refrigeration, and is harder to tell when it has turned than, say, chicken).
oh, there are crazies everywhere, i agree completely. just seems that there are more in the religious circles for some reason. how many atheist groups do you see running around trying to get people to stop using vaccinations or other modern medicines, or starting wars against people with different beliefs, or the plethora of other crazy fights that fanatical theists start in the name of their God? i don't know of any. so, it is kind of an assumption on my part? sure, but one with evidence to suggest it.
that's the entire point this thread is making! religious fanatics take the bible and stretch the meanings to suggest whatever they want! and since it is God's word, people fucking believe these crazies! how are you not seeing that religion is a part of this issue? i'm not saying it's 100% to blame, but it sure exacerbates the problem. without the religion backing up what these crackpots are saying, no one would listen or give a shit. they'd just be some crazy nutbag yelling at people on the street.
the difference between government and religion is insanely obvious and the two cannot be compared in this situation. political views and opinions are not divinely handed down from our God - they are man made and created by us. political views are allowed to be debated and changed - religious views are not. government was created to govern countries and societies - religious views were created to govern morality and spirituality. i could go on, but honestly, if you don't see the difference i think i just give up.
I was going to use the example of Quebec's pending charter banning religious symbols in the workplace as an example of atheists gone wild...
But then I remembered that the crucifix is still okay if it's not too big. Because you know, until it's at least X inches long, it's just a lower case t.
Religion is an excuse for people's lazy thinking, ignorance, misogyny, homophobia, etc etc.
Mark
is that actually atheists though? i highly doubt every person in the quebec government is an atheist. there are definitely theists who want the separation of church and state as well.
lol little t
I have never, ever thought of it that way and now I don't think I'll ever be able see one again and not lol a little. If I ever describe it that way to my Mother in law.... It will not turn out well.
my grandmother would totally slap me if i said that lol.
Anti-theists then . . .
The problem is not with the message (religion), often it is a problem with the messenger (the crazies).
Surely you would agree that our current Pope is charting a somewhat non-crazy path?
I don't see it as the fault of religion itself. Take away religion and you would still have sociopaths, con men, and wannabe cult leaders trying to influence people and promote irrational views. People are just easily influenced if you wrap your con in religion. Same with patriotism. How about the militias, domestic terrorists, the McVeys; who believe the government is coming after them and figure they need to strike first? Same phenomenon if you ask me.
The anti-fluoridationists to my knowledge are not religious in nature. They're conspiracy theorists who have no scientific evidence to prove their assertion that fluoridation is harmful. And they're succeeding in getting municipalities to end a practice that has proven to be beneficial, and with 50 years of positive data behind it.