Is it legal...........

witchdoctorwitchdoctor
in Poker Games
Hi there.....I have been organizing a monthly tournament and have found a bar/restaurant that will let us use there facilities, but just wanted to check what the legalities of having a no-limit tourney there. There would be no rake (all 100% paid out) and the restaurant gets no take either. Please advise if you know for sure. I don't want anyone to get in trouble.

Comments

  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    No. No. (had to be 5 characters)
  • pkrfce9pkrfce9
    Ok. It's close. Is the restaurant benefitting by selling food or booze? There's a chance they could lose their licence.
  • witchdoctorwitchdoctor
    Well...the restaurant would be have other people sitting at those tables if we weren't there proably eating and drinking more than a bunch of poker players would be consuming. What if any difference is there in bars/pool halls having billiards tournaments for cash???
  • SirWattsSirWatts
    There have been many similar posts on here. My understanding from them is that this would be illegal since the bar/restaurant would indirectly make money by selling food and booze to the players. The difference from pool is that pool is seen has a game of skill whereas poker is seen as a game of chance. Typical ScottyZ *This is not official legal advice* disclaimer applies.
  • rgspencergspence
    Hey witchdoc...check out this thread, there are a couple of links in this thread. One goes directly to the Alcohol and Gaming web site.

    http://pokerforum.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=3366

    That should help out, there is a section on what is considered a proper gaming house, and I beleive that a restaurant or bar are two of teh nono's. But Hall's, legions (which are cheap and u can smoke in), community centers.

    Anyways hope this helps.

    Rob
  • screenmanscreenman
    I had the same idea and did all the legal research. Went to talk to the AGCO and was told that they do not regulate that, only casinos and that I should talk to the RCMP "Illegal Gambling Division". They even gave me the number which sorry I do not have with me. I made the call and was told this by an officer in the division.
    "If no one is profiting from the game and there is no cost for the player (we were going to use sponsor prizes.) it is not Illegal". That is from their point of view. The LCBO may be different. When asked about the liquor sales we were told if the bar is not selling the beverages at a premium because of the game they are not profiting from the game.
    Hope this helps.
  • rgspencergspence
    SirWatts wrote:
    Typical ScottyZ *This is not official legal advice* disclaimer applies.

    LMAO, that's funny and true.
  • rgspencergspence
    screenman wrote:
    "If no one is profiting from the game and there is no cost for the player (we were going to use sponsor prizes.)

    You see, the law is screwed up on this the RCMP don't even kmow what the @#$% is goin on. We spoke to the RCMP, OPP, Metro Anti crime and were told, cost or no cost, as long as "the house", house being the organizer does not profit, it is ok. Entry fees are acceptable, as long as there is no premium. ie. $500 to rent a hall, you have 100 players and charge a $25 entry. Your entry should only be $5 in this case.

    But then again, who know's. The problem is that the law in Canada is so faint towards the general public and stiff on bookmakers, casino and casino suppliers, that when this sudden craze of poker hit, nobody in law enforcement had actually really studied the legalities of the law towards non casino type games of chance. And that came right from an RCMP officers mouth.So who the hell know's, organize you game, have fun and see what happens. Supposedly, they only come if it is large amounts of monies (ie. 10,000 min, 100 players), but even then they would have to be tipped off, or under servailance, or there has to be a complaint about your regular game for them to take interest.

    Once again, this is hear says, and opinions.

    Rob
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    If the poker event generates profit, directly or indirectly, for anyone involved, it could possibly be considered a common gaming house under the Criminal Code. [Sec. 197 (1) "common gaming house" (a)]
    "common gaming house" means a place that is

    (a) kept for gain to which persons resort for the purpose of playing games...

    IMO, the real trouble with this definition is the outrageously broad scope of the phrase "kept for gain".

    As I understand it, pool is different than poker from a legal standpoint. Pool is not a "game" according to the definition in Criminal Code. [Sec. 197 (1)]
    "game" means a game of chance or mixed chance and skill

    This observation does not necessarily automatically make wagering on pool legal. It simply means (as I interpret it) that pool would fall under a different definition of the Criminal Code than poker would.

    Usual disclaimer: Talk to a lawyer and/or read the law yourself for the real scoop.

    http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/42557.html

    ScottyZ
  • bossmanbossman
    as long as the bar does not make a profit its legal its like hosting a bingo or pool tournament but the onwer not suppose to help if someone come up to him and ask him can we use your back hall to play poker ,cards or pool tourney its perfectly legal
    the bar is not making money from the tourney he makes money of the custumer playing cards perfectly legal ...no cover charge ....no fouls
  • YorkpokerYorkpoker
    Our laywers (I work at a gaming site) have advised as follows - no game in which anyone (house, organizers, etc) profits is ok. No consideration (prizing) can be offered for the winner. A raffle for all entrants to the tournament is different but defeats the purpose of a poker game. Especially risky is a licensed establishment holding a game on premesis. If the ACGO wants to make a stink, they will, right or wrong and the bar (or whatever) will have to spend puntloads of money to retain their license.

    There likely won't be an issue because of all the confusion over who actually enforces these things, but the ACGO, who sets the rules, has some very clear guidelines on the subject. I will include Scotty's disclaimer so I don't get into trouble, but that is pretty much from the horse's mouth.

    Having said all that, I have played, dealt and run 'backroom' games for 10 years or so and so far, so good. But the rules are the rules and someone asked.
  • bbd123bbd123
    I have just contacted the New Brunswick Gaming and Lottery commision about the forming of a Poker League and running Poker Tournaments from time to time. They referred me to the local City Cousil as they have jurisdiction over these type of gaming activities.

    So I called the RCMP and they informed me that I was the first to ask them this question and that they would get back to me. About 2 hours later I was called back and informed that they had called the 3 city counsils in our Tri-Community (Moncton, Dieppe and Riverview) and have also passed on my question to the Chief Legal Liason for the RCMP. He said I shoudl have an answer by the end of next week.

    He did sound very upbeat and was very interested in the structure and plans for the league. He did tell me that they have no problems with house games as long as the host isn't taking a rake or charging for the use of his house. Chipping in for food or snacks is fine.

    Once I hear back from them I will post again :smile:
  • YorkpokerYorkpoker
    The part that kills me is that I remember when the gaming commission (in Ont) were seriously involved in the day to day stuff. Now, with the larger places like Rama and Niagra running, they seem to be focusing on licensing and regulating those places.

    It takes a big boom like this to make the RCMP and city councils get excited over poker and consider loopholes in their own rules. I can see great things for poker if the rules are officially relaxed (by way of precident).
Sign In or Register to comment.
HomeDiscussionsToggle Dark Mode