Woodbine Thursday Night
I checked out Woodbine last night. Arrived about 9pm. 4 tables of 1/2, 2 tables of 2/5 and 1 table of 5/5.
After about 20 minutes, they open a new 1/2 table and I was seated. Most of the guys bought in for < 200. Sigh. Not much excitement. A lot of mediocre to average play. I busted the same guy twice with flushes. He always rebought a short stack so there wasn't a lot of profit. One old Italian guy came to the table and bought in for 300. He wasn't very good so I had some hopes but after about an hour he got called to a 2/5 table. Funny thing was, they asked me first if I wanted to move and I figured with the Italian guy at my table, it was better to stay put. So then they asked him
After a couple hours they break the table up. I'm thinking about heading home with a small profit but decide to check out the table they moved me to. It had 3 or 4 guys with 400+ stacks so I decided to play for a bit. The guy 2 to my right is a fairly tight 30+ white guy with 500+, guy to my right is an aggressive 20+ Asian with 400+, 2 to my left is an old Asian guy with 300+ and 3 to my left is a 30+ Asian guy with 400+. The white guy is talking to the kid next to him about PLO strategy. 20+ Asian guy is silent but a good aggressive player. Old Asian guy is a miserable tight ass but has a cool name - ll cool j. 30+ Asian guy is fairly aggressive but loves to analyze every previous hand so his strategy becomes clear. He also tends to criticize the play of the old Asian guy which I thought was pretty crass. Old Asian guy seemed oblivious to it. That might have been an act.
A couple of hands stand out. Tight Asian guy to my right raises UTG to 12. He has got >600 now and I have about 400. I call with 99. I probably could have reraised here but didn't think that was the best plan. 1 other caller. Flop comes K 9 x with 2 suits. He bets 20 and I raise to 50. He hesitates but calls. Turn is a 9. He checks to me. I check behind. I thought a bet here would chase him away for sure. Mistake? River completes the flush. He checks and I bet about half the pot and he folds instantly. Sigh.
At some point a young cowboy sits down across from me. He buys in for 120-150. He is raising and 3-betting way too often but getting away with it for the most part. One hand he is BB and I'm in MP with QQ. I raise to 10. Only he calls. Flop is Q 9 x with 2 suits. He check calls 15. Turn is an Ace. He check calls 25. River completes the flush with another Ace but gives me the boat. He fires out half his stack. I push and he insta-folds. He claims he missed his straight draw. Sigh. He reloads again.
A few hands later, I raise to 7 in EP with 44. Cowboy calls from MP. Don't think anyone else is in. Flop is AA9 with 2 hearts. I bet 10, he calls. Hmmm. Turn is a miraculous 4. I bet 25, he calls. River completes the flush. I overbet the pot and he calls fairly quickly and shows the nut flush but it is no good against my boat. I'm surprised he didn't show more aggression on this hand.
In the midst of this, the old Italian guy comes back from 2/5 and sits to my left. I notice he has $6000 on his card! He immediately starts a fight with the miserable old Asian guy because he doesn't have room for his feet. It would have been funny if it wasn't slowing the game down. I only got into 1 hand with him unfortunately. I flopped top pr with a good kicker and bet around 10 and he immediately raised to 50 with 200 behind. Against him, I wouldn't mind getting all in with top pr normally but I hadn't seen an aggressive move out of him the time he was at the other table and he hadn't done anything at this table so I didn't feel nearly as confident and folded. Probably a mistake but I figured I'd get other chances against him where I could be confident I was ahead. Sadly it was not to be.
A couple of the big stacks decided to leave the table and most of the action dried up. I quit when the BB came around. I netted just under $200 after 3 hours of 'work'. Not PokerJAH win rates but I can live with that.
After about 20 minutes, they open a new 1/2 table and I was seated. Most of the guys bought in for < 200. Sigh. Not much excitement. A lot of mediocre to average play. I busted the same guy twice with flushes. He always rebought a short stack so there wasn't a lot of profit. One old Italian guy came to the table and bought in for 300. He wasn't very good so I had some hopes but after about an hour he got called to a 2/5 table. Funny thing was, they asked me first if I wanted to move and I figured with the Italian guy at my table, it was better to stay put. So then they asked him
After a couple hours they break the table up. I'm thinking about heading home with a small profit but decide to check out the table they moved me to. It had 3 or 4 guys with 400+ stacks so I decided to play for a bit. The guy 2 to my right is a fairly tight 30+ white guy with 500+, guy to my right is an aggressive 20+ Asian with 400+, 2 to my left is an old Asian guy with 300+ and 3 to my left is a 30+ Asian guy with 400+. The white guy is talking to the kid next to him about PLO strategy. 20+ Asian guy is silent but a good aggressive player. Old Asian guy is a miserable tight ass but has a cool name - ll cool j. 30+ Asian guy is fairly aggressive but loves to analyze every previous hand so his strategy becomes clear. He also tends to criticize the play of the old Asian guy which I thought was pretty crass. Old Asian guy seemed oblivious to it. That might have been an act.
A couple of hands stand out. Tight Asian guy to my right raises UTG to 12. He has got >600 now and I have about 400. I call with 99. I probably could have reraised here but didn't think that was the best plan. 1 other caller. Flop comes K 9 x with 2 suits. He bets 20 and I raise to 50. He hesitates but calls. Turn is a 9. He checks to me. I check behind. I thought a bet here would chase him away for sure. Mistake? River completes the flush. He checks and I bet about half the pot and he folds instantly. Sigh.
At some point a young cowboy sits down across from me. He buys in for 120-150. He is raising and 3-betting way too often but getting away with it for the most part. One hand he is BB and I'm in MP with QQ. I raise to 10. Only he calls. Flop is Q 9 x with 2 suits. He check calls 15. Turn is an Ace. He check calls 25. River completes the flush with another Ace but gives me the boat. He fires out half his stack. I push and he insta-folds. He claims he missed his straight draw. Sigh. He reloads again.
A few hands later, I raise to 7 in EP with 44. Cowboy calls from MP. Don't think anyone else is in. Flop is AA9 with 2 hearts. I bet 10, he calls. Hmmm. Turn is a miraculous 4. I bet 25, he calls. River completes the flush. I overbet the pot and he calls fairly quickly and shows the nut flush but it is no good against my boat. I'm surprised he didn't show more aggression on this hand.
In the midst of this, the old Italian guy comes back from 2/5 and sits to my left. I notice he has $6000 on his card! He immediately starts a fight with the miserable old Asian guy because he doesn't have room for his feet. It would have been funny if it wasn't slowing the game down. I only got into 1 hand with him unfortunately. I flopped top pr with a good kicker and bet around 10 and he immediately raised to 50 with 200 behind. Against him, I wouldn't mind getting all in with top pr normally but I hadn't seen an aggressive move out of him the time he was at the other table and he hadn't done anything at this table so I didn't feel nearly as confident and folded. Probably a mistake but I figured I'd get other chances against him where I could be confident I was ahead. Sadly it was not to be.
A couple of the big stacks decided to leave the table and most of the action dried up. I quit when the BB came around. I netted just under $200 after 3 hours of 'work'. Not PokerJAH win rates but I can live with that.
Comments
The $200 profit is a nice warm-up for the Forumers' Trip to Fallsview this weekend.
it is not stereotyping at all. i'm describing actual behaviour.
You do realize I'm funnin ya right..?
Good play description though. We definitely need more of that around here.
Some player in the table would start singing a children's song whenever they saw my screen name.
on this we can agree. maybe even some hand analysis?
I played against him last weekend! Uber lag. Was doing very well for the time he was at my table.
And what was your name-o?
other candidates:
* competent management
* armed guards
* drink service
* a few calling stations
* my baby daddy
* mike hunt (had to throw that golden oldie in)
So, is he tight or aggressive?
Of course you have to bet the turn, checking behind and firing the river turns your hand face up. What is he going to call with on the river that he is unlikely to call on the turn? He is most likely going to fold/fold or call/call.
Your winrates are black and his are red, it's not the same thing;)
It sounds like the 2/5 games are pretty shallow, were there better tables with deeper stacks?
One day I'll figure out the multiquote thing
With my quads hand, I figured he didn't have much but I had a chance to induce a bluff on the river with my check behind on the turn. Is that completely unrealistic? I guess if he had anything, I had a chance to get some of his stack on the turn if I bet. You figure the second line is more profitable?
Another interesting thing I've noticed at rooms with a BBJ is that some players don't value bet their strong hands if there is a one in sangkatutak-trillion chance that both players may end up with BBJ hands at showdown. In this case, a "BBJ pro" would check his quads all the way to the river on the faint hope that the other player may have a straight flush draw and hit a one-outer. Some players don't want to auto-chop because of the BBJ in case they have AA vs. KK in the blinds. By the way, the BBJ at Fallsview is currently $74,000.
Unsure about the first point on the online aspect, but definitely agree on the live play analysis here. You're giving up way too much value with unmade hands or hands with value on the turn that won't call a river bet. I wouldn't call it as much as turning your hand face up, but live players likes to call....alot. Even if they think they know they're beat they like to call just to see your hand or just to prove they were right with their reads.
80% of the time I'd bet the quads on the turn (probably 75% of pot). A check on the turn and a bet on the river may be giving away your hand just as much. Might as well bet the turn and hope to get the player to call or raise you based on the implied value of their hand. The implied value of their hand most likely will significantly decrease by the river because they may have missed their draw or the board may be even scarier for them, which means you won't be getting too much out of them anyway. In turn, depending on how aggressive the player is they may even be so bold as to raise you in an attempt to bluff that they hit a set or have filled up on the turn.
Never know when you might see that fifth 9 . . .
sorry
This is more aligned with the way I'm thinking about it now, after the fact.
Probably with live, people are more likely to call. They 'didn't come to fold' after investing time and effort to get there vs playing online. And they can't multi-table
The other part of check turn/bet river is I could be bluffing (ok, small possibility of that) and I have to bet to win, so I might get called by a decent hand.
My guess is he missed whatever he was drawing to and didn't want to fire on the river because he didn't think he could get me to fold a good hand. A check raise from him would have been foolhardy unless he had a bad read. I think he was a pretty good player and had sat with me long enough to have a good feel for my hand here.
With this particular hand, I doubt I get called on the turn anyway BUT as a general principal against this player (possibly all players), I agree, it was probably better to bet the turn.