I know what to do but don't do it
First of all sorry for the long post.
I call this the chess observer scenario. I know how all the pieces move and I know to think a few moves ahead. When I watch two people play chess, I can see who needs to do what, and I can see 3-5 moves ahead for each player. When I play chess, I can't see 1 move ahead and end up playing one move at a time.
On to poker. I know the game to a certain extent, I know strategy and I know patience required. When I'm watching poker, or reading up on hand histories, I feel like I have a good understanding of the game and what's involved. But... when I play myself, be it in cash or tournament, online or live, it all goes out the window. I only think about some basics like bet size and position. My patience goes out the window, I'm always trying to make plays for the sake of making plays and I tilt way too easily.
This has been going on for a while, I would say well over a year. Lately in my monthly league games, I've been one of the first 5 players out so far this year except for 2. In the last game, we played superstack with 10k starting chips and 25/50 blinds @ 15 min intervals. I was out by the 3rd blind level.
A couple of hands which lead to my demise:
(1) Villain is a decent player, semi-tight, not very aggro or passive IMO. Villain never 3bets preflop. I'm LP, AJo, 25/50, raise pf to 150, all fold except BB who calls. Flop comes 9910. He bets 150, I raise to 600. He thinks a bit and calls. Turn is a low blank, he checks, I check. River, another blank, he bets 800 I fold. I figure that he's got me beat when he calls my flop raise with either a PP, A10, or even AK or AQ hence my check on the turn and fold to his river bet.
(2) Few hands later. Villain is loose aggro, tanks for every decision. He's in MP, i'm to his left. He calls pre flop, I raise to 3x with Ks9s, folds around to him and he calls. Flop comes AK8 rainbow. He checks, I bet half the pot, he min raises, I re-raise 3x his total bet, he calls. Turn is a blank, he bets half the pot, I fold.
My thoughts, I c-bet when he checks the flop, he check raises me to rep the ace, I re-raise to find out if he really has it, he calls so I figure he has it. Against most other players I would have folded to the check raise.
(3) Blinds now at 50/100, UTG with 67 suited, I call, folded all the way to the BB who is the same villain as last hand who checks. Flop comes 653 rainbow. He bets 100, I raise to 300, he calls. Turn J, he checks, I bet 400, he calls. River is a 9, he leads out $1700. Looks like a steal, could be a value bet, I tank for a while and call. Terrible I know. He shows 6 3.
(4) I lost a little here and there, ended up with <3k, at 75/150 the same villain raises 3x, I have 910o and shove, he calls (still tanks) with AQ and flops 2 pair.
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The first two hands I think I'm beat and give it up. I think there's nothing wrong with that, but losing both hands early in the tournament get me wound up to try to win back my losings --> tilt. By the third hand I'm tilted and making bad plays, and the last hand I'm overboard.
This led to my demise in the WSOP in Vancouver last year as well. I played super tight for the first 1.5 hours, mucking hands like A10 suited in early position, or KQ in late position. I finally got AA in the dealer spot, loose aggro player who has been in almost every hand and shipping all his chips away in the SB calls my pf raise with 55 and hits a set. We both end up all in and I'm down to half stack. I win a small pot a few hands later with AQ when I flopped an A. Few hands after that I lost about 1/3 my stack with A10 suited when someone made a hero call with K4 on the river. Then I lost a pot with Q9 suited with terrible play and the downward spiral continued.
I have essentially told myself that I can never play profitable poker because I'm too emotional. I've been playing since the Moneymaker boom and still haven't been able to correct these tendencies. I normally have about $50-200 on Pokerstars which constantly fluctuates but can't ever keep it over $250. Once I lose a BI, I tend to lose 2 or 3 more within 24 hours.
TL;DR: I know the game decently well but can't execute. I tilt easy and can't seem to get it under control.
Advice?
I call this the chess observer scenario. I know how all the pieces move and I know to think a few moves ahead. When I watch two people play chess, I can see who needs to do what, and I can see 3-5 moves ahead for each player. When I play chess, I can't see 1 move ahead and end up playing one move at a time.
On to poker. I know the game to a certain extent, I know strategy and I know patience required. When I'm watching poker, or reading up on hand histories, I feel like I have a good understanding of the game and what's involved. But... when I play myself, be it in cash or tournament, online or live, it all goes out the window. I only think about some basics like bet size and position. My patience goes out the window, I'm always trying to make plays for the sake of making plays and I tilt way too easily.
This has been going on for a while, I would say well over a year. Lately in my monthly league games, I've been one of the first 5 players out so far this year except for 2. In the last game, we played superstack with 10k starting chips and 25/50 blinds @ 15 min intervals. I was out by the 3rd blind level.
A couple of hands which lead to my demise:
(1) Villain is a decent player, semi-tight, not very aggro or passive IMO. Villain never 3bets preflop. I'm LP, AJo, 25/50, raise pf to 150, all fold except BB who calls. Flop comes 9910. He bets 150, I raise to 600. He thinks a bit and calls. Turn is a low blank, he checks, I check. River, another blank, he bets 800 I fold. I figure that he's got me beat when he calls my flop raise with either a PP, A10, or even AK or AQ hence my check on the turn and fold to his river bet.
(2) Few hands later. Villain is loose aggro, tanks for every decision. He's in MP, i'm to his left. He calls pre flop, I raise to 3x with Ks9s, folds around to him and he calls. Flop comes AK8 rainbow. He checks, I bet half the pot, he min raises, I re-raise 3x his total bet, he calls. Turn is a blank, he bets half the pot, I fold.
My thoughts, I c-bet when he checks the flop, he check raises me to rep the ace, I re-raise to find out if he really has it, he calls so I figure he has it. Against most other players I would have folded to the check raise.
(3) Blinds now at 50/100, UTG with 67 suited, I call, folded all the way to the BB who is the same villain as last hand who checks. Flop comes 653 rainbow. He bets 100, I raise to 300, he calls. Turn J, he checks, I bet 400, he calls. River is a 9, he leads out $1700. Looks like a steal, could be a value bet, I tank for a while and call. Terrible I know. He shows 6 3.
(4) I lost a little here and there, ended up with <3k, at 75/150 the same villain raises 3x, I have 910o and shove, he calls (still tanks) with AQ and flops 2 pair.
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The first two hands I think I'm beat and give it up. I think there's nothing wrong with that, but losing both hands early in the tournament get me wound up to try to win back my losings --> tilt. By the third hand I'm tilted and making bad plays, and the last hand I'm overboard.
This led to my demise in the WSOP in Vancouver last year as well. I played super tight for the first 1.5 hours, mucking hands like A10 suited in early position, or KQ in late position. I finally got AA in the dealer spot, loose aggro player who has been in almost every hand and shipping all his chips away in the SB calls my pf raise with 55 and hits a set. We both end up all in and I'm down to half stack. I win a small pot a few hands later with AQ when I flopped an A. Few hands after that I lost about 1/3 my stack with A10 suited when someone made a hero call with K4 on the river. Then I lost a pot with Q9 suited with terrible play and the downward spiral continued.
I have essentially told myself that I can never play profitable poker because I'm too emotional. I've been playing since the Moneymaker boom and still haven't been able to correct these tendencies. I normally have about $50-200 on Pokerstars which constantly fluctuates but can't ever keep it over $250. Once I lose a BI, I tend to lose 2 or 3 more within 24 hours.
TL;DR: I know the game decently well but can't execute. I tilt easy and can't seem to get it under control.
Advice?
Comments
Hands 1 & 2: You play fairly ABC and easy to read which the others at the table seem to have picked up on. Not hard for them to steal from you if they know exactly what you are going to do.
Hand 3: You should be raising from UTG with suited connectors! Put some pressure on the table. The V out flopped you with 6-3, which sucks, but he totally outplayed you. His calls on the flop and turn should be a huge warning sign that you are way behind.
Hand 4: You shoved light and got caught. gg.
My advice would be to change up your game. Raise more. Steal more. (and show). And for Pete's sake, FOLD IF YOU KNOW YOU ARE BEHIND!!!
I disagree with raising more, your style appears to be super aggressive.
We have hand 1 where you 3 bet flop with A high.
We have hand 2 where you 4 bet 2nd pair
And #3 where we are 3 betting top pair/small redraw
From what I see in these hands that pots are being bloated unnecessarily with marginal hands. You seem to be the type that "raises to see where you're at", which is a huge leak. It big dick poker, but the good thing is you recognize it.
Its OK to get bluffed. I think thats my point. Generally, recreational poker players dont pull that many elaborate bluffs.
As played, in hand 1 I think you have to bet the turn. By raising the flop/checking turn you put yourself in a spot where he can donk the river and youre in a bad spot. I dont mind floating the flop there.
Once a month for 2 years. The though had crossed my mind.
Hands 1 & 2, do you not agree that I was most likely beat in both cases?
Agreed, I should have raised. I usually raise 90% of hands preflop. I'm not sure why I didn't in this case, maybe because I felt like I was running bad, in which case I shouldn't have even called.
I thought he was trying to outplay me with a weaker hand/draw.
I thought that's what got me into trouble...
I thought that's what I did for hands 1 & 2!
Hand 1 is a little confusing to me. I could have gone 2 ways. The way I went, which led to me losing the pot, or 2, like you said bet the turn even though I think I'm beat. Which, if I am and I think I am, will lead to lose even more chips.
It depends. You put yourself in a bad spot to start by raising that 9910 flop.
I suppose you can flat flop, bet turn and win more lose less.
I take back continuing on the turn. I put myself in villains shoes and ask why you would bet again when nut hands are in my range. If you have a hand like JJ/QQ the optimal line is likely check turn / call river.
If I flat the flop, and he bets the turn, I would want to raise him on the turn to steal the pot. If he check the turn and I bet and he calls it, i'm in the same situation. I'd rather raise the flop to take it down there.
I'm going to stand (ok sit) back and try to learn something.
biggest point is you seem to get into 'big' pots with marginal holdings. Try to keep the 'big' pots to your 'big' flops, and you should be fine
playing online, play the micro stakes (cash or tourney), until you start showing consistant profit, then move up accordingly....I'm just guessing that you're playing too high if you're buying in 2x in a day.
I play 25nl online. It's not within my BR I know, but anything lower drives me batty. Though I think you may have misread my first post, I don't reload often. After losing a few BI's and I'm down to <$60 I can usually get it back up to $200, then I lose a BI and back down I go.
Most people could have got it back under control after losing the first 2 hands I would think.
online, I enjoy berating the other players via chat
live, order a beer
No offense, but I don't think it is just that you know what to do and cannot adequately perform...you seem to have some errors in your play. Nothing is black and white but some of these spots seem to be super dark grey.
1. Call flop and if he leads turn you fold. This is a small pot so keep it that way since you have nothing that you can beat. Very few players at this level will fire the turn with less than JT and many will check the turn with as good as KT since you raise preflop.
If he bets flop checks turn and then bets 1/2 pot or more on the river then you also fold if you don't improve. Even if you do improve you may not be good so at that time you would have to reevaluate.
He is never betting that big on the river with ace high.
You can't describe your opponent and then not factor in his image into your decisions.
You have to define the purpose of your raise in every situation and have a plan afterwards. Here it just seems to be spew. There is almost no hand in your range that you would raise in that spot with position and with the stacks being deep.
2. Isolating preflop is fine but you have to also describe the players behind you otherwise the play is somewhat spewy...especially if this is early and you are deep.
On the flop with position AND your description of the opponent AND being very deep I check behind the flop and let him bluff into me on the a fair percentage of the time and re-evaluate on the river. Against some players I Cbet, but not here.
Again, I would keep the pot small and use my position to my advantage.
Also, what you are calling blanks may not be blanks.
Also, Also, (and this tilts me often) he IS NOT LAGGY if he is open limping from MP. Maybe you mean he plays lots of hands. Maybe you can pick up on what hands he open raises with and which ones he open limps with and get a better read on the situation.
Again, (again), define the purpose of your raises. I would NEVER 3 bet the flop in that spot.
3. I fold or raise preflop depending on the table and my image. If I am down lots of chips in a tourney I instafold preflop.
In your situation, on the flop I think a raise is fine with TP and a draw. However, realize that many of your outs are not clean.
Again, check the turn. What is the point of the bet? As with your raises, your bets should have a purpose. There are almost zero better hands that you will get to fold with a bet and a huge range of worse hands that may fold with a bet (5x, any 3 with a draw, etc). Checking the turn will induce bluffs on the river and keep the pot small. It also gives you control of the hand.
4. 20bb in live pokerz is quite a few. Find a better spot to shove.
I assume this is where you are saying that you tilted.
Tilting can be a big problem. I play terribly when my life is not in order and very well when the rest of my life is on track. Just like in all sports (poker's not a sport, but it's an analogy) you cannot play your best when you force things. If you want to start a thread about controlling tilt then that would also be good, but your examples above are more about fundamental errors in your game.
Post more and you will get better.
It's nice to have some poker discussion on here and nice to see that Wetts is back around.
None taken. I know I said that I know the game, but I meant a bit more than just fundamentals. I'm no pro and don't know the game inside and out, otherwise... I'd be pro.
My plan was to raise and take it down and if he called, to check the rest of the way and fold if he bet again. Probably not the best plan I guess.
You're right that I mis described him as laggy, he is loose, and is often aggressive post flop, but not preflop. I will keep this info in mind, I understand why you would keep the pots small while I should not have massively inflated them.
Again, great info. Thank you.
I was already tilted by hand 3... I might as well have left by hand 4. 109 is an awful hand to shove and I knew it.
I should have mentioned in the original post that I have been betting and raising more lately since I felt that I was getting to a point in my game where I was checking far too often and letting pots get away from me with soft play. It looks like I waaaay overcompensated.
Thanks everyone for your comments so far.
I plan on trying to do the same this year, win a satty to some of the games. Only this time, I will play my game, and hope to get my game on a consistent level by then.