Live Poker Question
Hi Guys,
So I was playing $1/$2 nl at Casino Niagara last night and wanted some feedback on a hand that I played (I'll do my best to give as much details as I can).
There were 10 players at the table, I UTG and dealt AA (sorry, don't remember the suites).
On a side note, I had been on the table for about 1.5 hours at this point and noticed that players were generally pretty loose, at least 4-6 players in most flops, and the standard raise at this table seemed to be about $10-$11.
So, I raised preflop $11 and got 3 callers, the button and both blinds.
The flop comes 3 5 7 rainbow, the blinds check, I c-bet $20 into a $44 pot, and the button shoves for an extra $183, the blinds fold.
Now, from what I'd seen, the button player seemed to be a regular and was pretty loose. He'd also seen me show down some strong hands earlier in the game (pocket Kings, and also pocket Aces).
I started the hand with close to $450 and, based on my read of the button player, I decided to call. (I couldn't see any flush or straight draws so figured that he was trying to bluff me off the pot).
End result: the buy had two pair so he'd called my preflop raise with 5 7 and hit top two pair on the flop. I couldn't improve and lost the hand.
So, did I mess up on this one? Should I have raised more preflop, on the flop, folded to the shove?
Let me know if there's any more info I can give and thanks in advance for the feedback!
So I was playing $1/$2 nl at Casino Niagara last night and wanted some feedback on a hand that I played (I'll do my best to give as much details as I can).
There were 10 players at the table, I UTG and dealt AA (sorry, don't remember the suites).
On a side note, I had been on the table for about 1.5 hours at this point and noticed that players were generally pretty loose, at least 4-6 players in most flops, and the standard raise at this table seemed to be about $10-$11.
So, I raised preflop $11 and got 3 callers, the button and both blinds.
The flop comes 3 5 7 rainbow, the blinds check, I c-bet $20 into a $44 pot, and the button shoves for an extra $183, the blinds fold.
Now, from what I'd seen, the button player seemed to be a regular and was pretty loose. He'd also seen me show down some strong hands earlier in the game (pocket Kings, and also pocket Aces).
I started the hand with close to $450 and, based on my read of the button player, I decided to call. (I couldn't see any flush or straight draws so figured that he was trying to bluff me off the pot).
End result: the buy had two pair so he'd called my preflop raise with 5 7 and hit top two pair on the flop. I couldn't improve and lost the hand.
So, did I mess up on this one? Should I have raised more preflop, on the flop, folded to the shove?
Let me know if there's any more info I can give and thanks in advance for the feedback!
Comments
Pre-flop's fine if you have been playing standard to the table as well. What's your image tight / nit? Average? Loose?
Calling $183 into a pot of $283? Pretty steep... and your read that the guy's a regular that shows down strong hands? I fold.
Edit for more: You don't see any straight draws? There's a made straight out there.
Your preflop was fine, the flop, I probably go a little more than 1/2 pot, just to pressure people, but ya. Fold.
Mark
Yeah, about 5 minutes after putting up my post I realized the potential straight...but I agree, I should've folded that one.
Just a slight correction though, the reg hadn't shown down strong hands but instead he'd seen me show down strong ones. Also, I'd seen him play some weak hands before and show some bluffs too.
That being said, with the possible straight out there and that I had to call 183 to win 267, definitely should've folded.
Thanks for the reply!
I'm sure it must be Friday nights, and weekends but just thought I'd hear some of your experiences.
Thanks in advance!
Long Weekends (American & Canadian), yw.
I need to know what kind of hand he puts you on and given his image and what you think he thinks you have, what hands would push here.
fwiw I think opening to 11 pf in a 1/2 game especially if the max is 200 or less is crazy
I'm typing this on my phone and it is a pain in the ass so I won't go further now. any good app?
Too simplistic. Where is the analysis? He is coming here to learn how to fish not to be given a fish. Especially a fish that stinks.
What odds is he being offered? Something like 6:4? If you look at the EXACT hand he is a 7:3 dog so ok don't call but even so a call is only slightly wrong.
Now go back to my original question. You don't know the exact hand. You have to put him on a range that would push here and decide if you are getting the right price here. Make sure that range includes at least 10% bluffs.
So let's put in a small amount of effort to get some value from the discussion. I'm willing to participate but I need some help. Or we can just keep the forum as a place to post upcoming small stakes tournies and useless non-poker topics and I can go back to sleep. I do not prefer that option and I hope I am not alone.
That and it's *you're* not *your*.
Signed
Your friendly neighbourhood English Nazi. (And yes I had to correct the correction of my spelling of 'neighborhood')
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zzz
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Anyone that re-raises $183 into such a small pot can easily beat AA (re: one pair). Very hard to catch up to two pairs in this spot and if they have a set, you are drawing to two outs. Easy fold IMO.
Cash games are all about trapping players. Big pairs are great starting hands, and you typically want to isolate pre-flop to heads up, not three other players. Its very easy to get out drawn on the flop with an overpair.
If this player is a complete donk, and has been showing a lot of bluffs and/or top pair with shitty kicker, then maybe you can call. But in most cases, with most competent players, you are behind.
I say they have two pair and are trapping as they know this guy is tight and he has an overpair and can't fold it. Classic trap.
Ok now back to my original questions. What range does he put you on and what range pushes against it?
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There is no decision in that case. Your spr is not much more than 4 and you would never fold against an aggro.
Might as well put 25+% of the effective stack in pf and jam the flop.
Bingo.
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He knows this guy has an overpair and can't fold it. He isn't pushing with a gut shot. He could also have an over pair, but unlikely.
There is still the other side to consider. What range jams there and is it profitable to call? I will bet the answer is not what you think.
zzz
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Just re-read OP, two pair as I expected.
zzz
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Need your definition of bluff on this board.
There's no chance that I assign anywhere close to 10% as a bluff here (at least my definition), on this board with the described action. It's far (far) closer to 0.
I weight heavily towards 2 pair hands and flopped straights. poorly played 99+. Possibly A7 (bluff?).
Here is my logic. Feel free to adjust my numbers.
The villain is calling pf with 30-40% of his hands. On the flop it is quite conceivable for him to have a straight, set, 2pr, overpair, pair, OESD, double gutshot, gutshot or absolutely nothing. Pretty much anything.
The big raise here throws me off. I see this most times as a bet that does not want a call. It doesn't make sense to chase away a hand that may continue to bet and is unlikely to catch up. I don't see a straight, sets and top 2pr making that move often from a thinking player. Of course if he is not a good player then this is a bad conclusion. Although this is 1/2 in tourist town there are still some good players at the lowest stakes
If the villain sees the op as a tight player who won't call a stupid bet then any of those absolutely nothing hands can push here. Not anywhere close to always since he may figure the op calls with AA and KK, which he can definitely put in the op range.
Can we agree he is pushing here 10% of the time with nothing, a gutshot or pr? I give that range 10% equity.
I'd say 15% off the time he's pushing with 88+. That range also has 10% equity.
A4 gives him a double gutshot. 68 gives OESD. These are definitely in his range. I think 25% of the time he's pushing with those hands. That range has 35% equity.
That leaves us with 50% of the time he's pushing with hands that kill the op. That still seems high to me but let's go with it. Those hands have up to 85% equity here. Maybe a bit lower since it is mostly the 2pr hands pushing here. It would be stupid to push with a straight here. Pretty much the same with a set.
Add it all up. Villain is less than a 3:2 favourite.
I say call.
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Zzz
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any chance you can turn off your fkn annoying signature line?
no
gg
Once your year is up
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