plo $0.05-$0.10 hand 6 max

trigstrigs
in Pot Limit and No Limit Omaha
i'm a newb when it comes to omaha so please be nice ;)

i had a hand come up the other day while bumming around in a low level cash game on stars. i didn't save it but i'll try to put it together here for some feedback.

i'm on the button and dealt: QhJdTdTc
folded to me and i make my usual min raise to $0.20
SB folds, BB calls
(pot is $0.45) flop comes: KhQxJh
BB checks and i opt to bet $0.35. BB calls
(pot is $1.15) turn is a blank (i think a 6 not a heart)
BB checks again. i don't think he's slowplaying as he seemed to be a bit of a calling station so i decide to bet again. i bet $0.90. BB calls.
(pot is $2.95) river is another blank (deuce i think not a heart).
BB checks a third time.

now here i can't see him having a made hand and checking a third time. if he does, he's definitely losing a lot of value in checking. i have been fairly aggressive so far but i haven't shown aggression all the way to the river without having a decent hand. i feel like a check just gives the pot away so i decide to shoot another bullet. i bet $2 and BB calls.

please evaluate my play here (especifically the river, but i'm interested in info on all streets as well). i can post BB's hand later if need be. thanks.

Comments

  • JohnnieHJohnnieH
    In this position, I check the river here. Too many hands that we are behind. (KQ,KJ, A10, 10/9, flopped set)
  • trigstrigs
    JohnnieH wrote: »
    In this position, I check the river here. Too many hands that we are behind. (KQ,KJ, A10, 10/9, flopped set)

    i may be wrong but i think we can omit some of those hands. i can't see A10 just calling all the way. maybe a flop call but i think A10 would not slowplay the turn as well.

    also, can a flopped set really just call flop and turn? seems pretty weak to me. again, i'm just guessing here though.
  • JohnnieHJohnnieH
    At nickel/dime, you see a lot of really weak players who will flop the nuts (or close) and check/ call all the way down in case they get sucked out. That being said, by the river you only have a weak 2 pair which doesn't hold up very often in PLO.
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    Never min raise.

    I don't like it in NLHE, but in Omaha, you're actually forcing them to play correctly, which means you're playing badly. Also, watch what happens.

    #1 You bet pot (at .05/.10 you'd go to .35) Vs #2 Your way

    1 - Pot is now 0.75 if he calls
    2 - Pot is 0.45

    Flop

    1 - You want to find out where you are and bet say 0.50 (calls=pot 1.75)
    2 - You bet 0.35 (pot ends 1.15)


    Turn

    1 - I check behind here (1.75)
    2 - You bet 0.90 (pot ends 2.95)

    River

    1a - He bets say pot, I call (1.75 to win 5.25)
    1b - He checks, you check again for $1.75

    2- You bet $2 to win 4.95, face re-raises, etc etc.

    My way I think is better because:

    A: As I said, min raising he has to call with anything, you're never that far behind in OM
    B: More pressure on him, and if he's behind, he makes a bigger mistake.
    C: Ironically enough, in my scenario you're risking less, and making more in one instance, and risking nothing to still take a sizeable pot.

    Mark
  • DataMnDataMn
    One thing you did not mention - is this Zoom poker or not?

    If it is Zoom then....

    1) Your min raise is not AS bad (but I still like to raise from 3x to pot pre-flop) because a lot of people just look at hand to determine whether they are raising or folding - not how much was bet.

    2) it is even more likely that you are losing at the river, because people are more likely to throw away the "junk" hands in Zoom. I also find they are more likely to slow-play the turn/river hoping that you bet and then call their re-raise in the hopes that it is a bluff.

    Al
  • trigstrigs
    i wasn't sure about the preflop min raises to be honest. i'll start potting it preflop from now on.

    @DataMn: no it wasn't zoom. just regular 6 max.

    @DrTyore: thanks for that breakdown. i do agree that a check on the turn is probably better in general. i was kind of playing a read against what i thought was a calling station though in my defense. i do agree that your line does look much better.
  • moosemoose
    If you bet the flop and they don't fold, it is unlikely they will fold the turn (either you are beat or they have sufficient draws to justify another call). You either should have the nuts or a lot of draws to the nuts to bet the turn. You can't get the nut boat and putting a 4 card straight on the board, would most likely give you just a chop. You have position so just check.

    River was a blank so again, probably no value in betting. Unlikely you can force a better two pair to fold and any missed draw won't pay you either. Lots of surprise hits like a rivered bottom set will look you up.

    Only two pair in Omaha that has any real value is top two, mostly because of the redraws to higher boats that may suck in weaker boats.

    Think about it - you pair your J and get excited, only to lose to KJ or queen's or kings full, a backdoor rivered AhJ, that was hanging in there for a straight and the nut flush draw or even chop against another QJ.
  • trigstrigs
    Thanks for the input Moose.
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    Despite what others are saying....I like min-raising...as long as you have a super high PFR...it's great for incuding 3 bets from out of position terrible players. Depending on villain, you can 4-bet, or flat in position.

    Now, as played, the only mistake I saw was the river bet. As noted, you're generally never getting a call from a worse hand.....perhaps occasional AAxxhh, or worse 2 pair hands that hit river.

    If he calls the river, I would guess 9T or better 2 pair hands called.
  • trigstrigs
    T8urmoney wrote: »
    Despite what others are saying....I like min-raising...as long as you have a super high PFR...it's great for incuding 3 bets from out of position terrible players. Depending on villain, you can 4-bet, or flat in position.

    Now, as played, the only mistake I saw was the river bet. As noted, you're generally never getting a call from a worse hand.....perhaps occasional AAxxhh, or worse 2 pair hands that hit river.

    If he calls the river, I would guess 9T or better 2 pair hands called.

    thanks for the comment T8. always appreciated.

    out of curiosity, could you please give me what you'd suggest is a super high PFR for 6 max tables? i don't mind playing aggressive and seeing a lot of flops in omaha. that was kind of why i originally felt like the min raise wasn't so bad.
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    trigs wrote: »
    thanks for the comment T8. always appreciated.

    out of curiosity, could you please give me what you'd suggest is a super high PFR for 6 max tables? i don't mind playing aggressive and seeing a lot of flops in omaha. that was kind of why i originally felt like the min raise wasn't so bad.

    30+
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