Seeing Quads against Full House - can you

RedingtonRedington
in General Poker Chat
Two examples -

me JJ
other XX

other called a 3xbb raise from the BB

flop J-8-2

check, I bet 2BB and get called

turn 8

bet 2BB, I raise to 5BB and get called

river 8

he bet 5BB................what do you do?

Me AA
other XX

I bet 5BB, I get called by button (my imagne isn't pristine :) )

Flop J-2-A two diamonds

I bet 2BB, get raised 5BB, I call

Turn J diamond hits

I check, he bets 5BB, I raise to 10BB he calls

River 2

I bet 4BB, he goes all in for 30BB more...

It costs me 1/3 my stack to call.... what do you do?



















The reason I ask is that in both cases I was against quads, is there a way to see them coming? You would think this doesnt happen often but in the last couple of weeks I have seen probably 6 or 7 fulls vs quads... yes I have been playing ALOT of hands and no they werent on Party Poker.

Comments

  • ChugsChugs
    I've become scare of quads, but that may be because i've been playing a lot more omaha lately, where they obviously tend to be more common.

    I don't see how you can avoid calling (if not re-raising) in either circumstance. Quads happen
  • Flint BonesFlint Bones
    I would have lost just the way you did. I would have put the other player on a bluff for the quad eights. I would have thought the 3 jacks would hold off the flop. I guess the question really is when you raised 2x the BB after the flop, what was the BB in comparison to your stack? Perhaps a stronger bet would have scared off the 8 X the other player was holding.

    As for the pocket deuces, what are you going to do? It's a tough beat. However, I think a lot of people would have got caught by the quad. It's a rare hand and you gotta take the chance. Sometimes you get beat.

    My advice for the future, next time you get a boat and the other person calls all-in...fold. Get it out of your system. The best time to fold is if the other player is me. Got that?
  • RedingtonRedington
    Flint Bones wrote:
    I would have lost just the way you did. I would have put the other player on a bluff for the quad eights. I would have thought the 3 jacks would hold off the flop. I guess the question really is when you raised 2x the BB after the flop, what was the BB in comparison to your stack? Perhaps a stronger bet would have scared off the 8 X the other player was holding.

    Um, well sometimes with the nuts I would rather shoot a small bullet to get the call. Lets hope I get raised or called. If there was a better draw out there well then I would be protecting.
    Flint Bones wrote:
    My advice for the future, next time you get a boat and the other person calls all-in...fold. Get it out of your system. The best time to fold is if the other player is me. Got that?

    Hahah, I will remember that now! ;)

    Wait maybe next time I will have the quads...how about you call, got that? call!
  • Flint BonesFlint Bones
    Um, well sometimes with the nuts I would rather shoot a small bullet to get the call. Lets hope I get raised or called. If there was a better draw out there well then I would be protecting.

    I see your point and I would have no doubt tried the same move. I was just thinking of alternatives in the play.
    Wait maybe next time I will have the quads...how about you call, got that? call!

    Okay I will. That will show you. I'll lick all my chips first, though. :eek:
  • ScottyZScottyZ
    I think it's an easy call with the AA. Your opponent could very easily have a Jack and believe that it's good.

    It's a closer decision with the JJ. You only lose to an 8.

    Could your opponent have an 8? He sure could. Betting only 2*BB on the flop is not enough to move an opponent off a two pair draw. The turn betting suggests that he likes his hand all of a sudden. Possibly an 8? Was he slowplaying 22 on the turn and got messed up on the river? Or playing an overpair to JJ super slowly? Of all these, the 8 seems most likely explanation for the flop/turn/river betting pattern.

    I'd just call on the river. It may seem like a timid play with the 2nd nuts, but your opponent's betting pattern cries out that he probably has an 8. On the other hand, I wouldn't dream of folding here. The hand has enough chance of winning to make it worth a call for only 5 more BB's.

    As an aside, your opponent (if he/she in fact had the 8) bet far too little on the river. Moving all-in would almost certainly be called by any Jack (and of course JJ) or overpair, which your betting pattern suggests you have. This opportunity far outwieghs the prospect of squeezing out a small amount of value from some other hand like AK or a small pair.

    ScottyZ
  • RedingtonRedington
    ScottyZ wrote:
    I think it's an easy call with the AA. Your opponent could very easily have a Jack and believe that it's good.

    Ok just so you know, he showed me 22 for the quads. Ofcourse it cost me 1/3 of my stack
    which took down from Chipleader to midstack.

    How do I avoid this? Can you avoid this? or do you pay off quads when you have the nut full? (or 2nd nut)

    Any catch is going to be a strong bet, and the person probably isnt going to think there bluffing so what read do you get? (I love seeing the 7788J on the board and the T9 and the A7, get soooooo disapointed when they see the bettor had 82!)

    So do you just gamble? (if the play out doesnt scream quads - I admit I did think the first example had an 8, even hoped it on the turn, then denied it), or would a super pro just lay it down?
    ScottyZ wrote:
    It's a closer decision with the JJ. You only lose to an 8.

    Could your opponent have an 8? He sure could. Betting only 2*BB on the flop is not enough to move an opponent off a two pair draw. The turn betting suggests that he likes his hand all of a sudden. Possibly an 8? Was he slowplaying 22 on the turn and got messed up on the river? Or playing an overpair to JJ super slowly? Of all these, the 8 seems most likely explanation for the flop/turn/river betting pattern.

    I'd just call on the river. It may seem like a timid play with the 2nd nuts, but your opponent's betting pattern cries out that he probably has an 8. On the other hand, I wouldn't dream of folding here. The hand has enough chance of winning to make it worth a call for only 5 more BB's.

    Exactly what I did, and he did exactly what I thought he might, he showed me an 8.
    But for 5BB I called. The two BB bet was to draw him in, I didnt want to let it go for free

    BUT I did not want him out of the hand. 1/46 to catch the last 8, but if I bet big I wouldn't have gotten the money on the turn where he has a 1/13 chance of catching an extra 8 or catching his other card (as long as I don't see an AKQ). Am I thinking this completely wrong? (BTW I would have been playing this way while everyone else was being aggressive)
    ScottyZ wrote:
    As an aside, your opponent (if he/she in fact had the 8) bet far too little on the river. Moving all-in would almost certainly be called by any Jack (and of course JJ) or overpair, which your betting pattern suggests you have. This opportunity far outwieghs the prospect of squeezing out a small amount of value from some other hand like AK or a small pair.

    Yes, I did get lucky that it was only for 5BB. with the full he would have gotten me for WAY more. So I had J's full of 8's. But lets say what hands would bet out here, JJ, JA, any over pair, and any 8. I have the second nut, to the 8 is the first better the winner?
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