5-10NL Live
Recently playing in a "big" live 5-10 game with effect stacks usually at 2K+ . Looking into some input on this hand I played tonight. Here are the details:
10 handed game. Villian and I just tangled a few hands previous where I smashed him for about 1400. Here is the way the first hand played out which will sorta help my explanation of my theory on the second hand.
Hand 1, Effective stacks are 1500.
MP position opens to 35, 7 callers, I am in the BB with AhKd comes to me and I re-pop to 185 and get 2 callers (one being villian and the original raiser)
Flop 4 6 2 rainbow. I lead into the flop for 275, original raiser folds and villian with about 1100 behind asks me how much I have left and proceeds to ship. I sit there and tank and I run through hand combinations.
I can't give him credit for AA or KK as he isn't the type of player to call in the hopes of being able to trap someone. I look at this as a bully type bet where he has polarized my range some what with my position and bet pre flop to be some 1 pairs and AX type hands which is correct as I'm holding AK.
Anyways I snap off his ship because I don't understand the hand and I feel most times here this is a bluff by fishy live players as they are trying to rep a hand bigger than what they assume I have.
Villian flips over 86 for top pair lolz....and I river an ace from space to take down the pot. Neither one of us is phased by this as we have been playing in a game where 3K pots are won with 9 high. Another reason why I snapped his bet off as I was thinking he thought I was just another moron at the table who loves to smash and gamble. In some instances he is right but I'm not betting with 9 high....lol
Now onto the hand where he smashes me back. I'm in the small again and this time I have AKdd. Villian has reloaded another 3K onto the table and now I have about 3200 infront of me.
Once again MP player opens again, this time to 55. There are 5 callers including this lag villian again so I decide this time to make my bet a little bigger as the game is starting to really warm up. I make it 385 to go....and villian calls my bet....and here is where the fun begins. Try to assign a range....lol
Flop is now 8s Ks 4s.....I lead out 650 into the pot, he jams.......
a) Am I to take a more conservative approach with AK pre?
b) Am I checking co-ordinated flops based on history with villian and his wide range
c) Is calling a ship here profitable?
Anyways I call and he flips over J9ss and smashes me for everything. Board actually gave me a sweat with a 4 on the turn (any 4 or K spins him on river lol)
I just feel his jam here was a single spade random hand, even K(X) just based on the way he played 86.
The way this game was playing I felt like most times I should be ahead when I flop top pair and I realize the board is pretty wet.
Any input is greatly appreciated
10 handed game. Villian and I just tangled a few hands previous where I smashed him for about 1400. Here is the way the first hand played out which will sorta help my explanation of my theory on the second hand.
Hand 1, Effective stacks are 1500.
MP position opens to 35, 7 callers, I am in the BB with AhKd comes to me and I re-pop to 185 and get 2 callers (one being villian and the original raiser)
Flop 4 6 2 rainbow. I lead into the flop for 275, original raiser folds and villian with about 1100 behind asks me how much I have left and proceeds to ship. I sit there and tank and I run through hand combinations.
I can't give him credit for AA or KK as he isn't the type of player to call in the hopes of being able to trap someone. I look at this as a bully type bet where he has polarized my range some what with my position and bet pre flop to be some 1 pairs and AX type hands which is correct as I'm holding AK.
Anyways I snap off his ship because I don't understand the hand and I feel most times here this is a bluff by fishy live players as they are trying to rep a hand bigger than what they assume I have.
Villian flips over 86 for top pair lolz....and I river an ace from space to take down the pot. Neither one of us is phased by this as we have been playing in a game where 3K pots are won with 9 high. Another reason why I snapped his bet off as I was thinking he thought I was just another moron at the table who loves to smash and gamble. In some instances he is right but I'm not betting with 9 high....lol
Now onto the hand where he smashes me back. I'm in the small again and this time I have AKdd. Villian has reloaded another 3K onto the table and now I have about 3200 infront of me.
Once again MP player opens again, this time to 55. There are 5 callers including this lag villian again so I decide this time to make my bet a little bigger as the game is starting to really warm up. I make it 385 to go....and villian calls my bet....and here is where the fun begins. Try to assign a range....lol
Flop is now 8s Ks 4s.....I lead out 650 into the pot, he jams.......
a) Am I to take a more conservative approach with AK pre?
b) Am I checking co-ordinated flops based on history with villian and his wide range
c) Is calling a ship here profitable?
Anyways I call and he flips over J9ss and smashes me for everything. Board actually gave me a sweat with a 4 on the turn (any 4 or K spins him on river lol)
I just feel his jam here was a single spade random hand, even K(X) just based on the way he played 86.
The way this game was playing I felt like most times I should be ahead when I flop top pair and I realize the board is pretty wet.
Any input is greatly appreciated
Comments
He also knows that you saw him ship it with only top pair. Knowing you think he'll ship light, he ships his made hand, hoping for a light call.
Given your reads, it wasn't a bad call, but I think villain may have known what your read was and used it against you.
Its just such a loose and bad game many times top pair bad kicker was good for a 1200.00 pot lol
Have you played against this guy before? if so, shoving in the first hand with AK knowing he will call you with any pair is a losing proposition. Realistically, you were getting your money in post-flop behind on both of these hands needing a Hail Mary.
At the end of the day its a cash game and I can always dip back into the well...lol
Like I said in the second instance I just leveled myself into calling.
this logic seems very results oriented to me
lol. you suck. maybe i'll tell you why one day.
Underground club game....
= next year in vegas lol
On the first hand, I don't think that I can call when he comes over the top with $1100 after the c-bet.
Makes sense....thanks for the input. Tonight is round 2....lol
So in a super loose game sitting with people who have oodles of money throwing around you don't think you're range is going to fair better against random hands. I mean on a 6 high board you get shoved on by someone who limp calls your bet in position and you give them credit for a nut hand?
If that is the case in this particular game I am sitting waiting for aces or kings. Just seems like raise folding will bleed you.
How would you approach a loose game in that instance? I want to see what I can do differently to play against cannons lol.
Had to edit my post slightly cause I was hasty when I wrote it scanning my phone bored at work wishing I was playing poker
No I'm not giving them credit for a nut hand but definitely better than 2 over cards. People are not bluffing you as much as you think.
You say the game is loose and the stacks are deep. Fine, but is it loose passive calling station or loose aggressive? If players on your left are loose aggressive maniacs who can raise, 3bet and 4bet light or put you to the test over and over by bluffing I would seriously consider leaving the game. In fact I would leave that game. They will cause you fits. Games like that are not profitable for the most part in my experience. If the game is the former though than I would stay as long as possible and even use tooth picks to keep my eyes open if necessary. I'm talking in generalities according to the way I would play at a juicy loose passive table.
As far as AK preflop oop I would often just call in that spot and see what comes on the flop. I prefer to raise with it suited when in position cause I can take control of the hand a lot easier than oop. If I pair I can bet out to protect my equity and get worse to call if the board is wet. I sometimes check to induce. Or if the board is very dry say Q 7 2 than I would bet to try and take it down. Board texture is very important on what I do. You have three streets of poker to get value and to find out when your hand is no good. If you hit your top pair than bet for value on every street and fold to a loose passives aggression. Especially all in on the flop. Wait for a better opportunity to play for stacks. Folding is part of the game as well as bet folding when you are beat.
Another point is that preflop you have a 1 in 3 chance to hit your hand. So betting your stack to win 1 to 1 is not profitable. AK is a powerful hand in tournaments when the stacks are shallow and you have fold equity. Calling all in with AK preflop with over 100bb stacks is suicide. You're killed by QQ, KK or AA and an 84% underdog. I know that's not what you did but I'm trying to say why a lot of people think AK is so strong and you see people playing for stacks with it before the flop a lot in cash games. It's a huge mistake.
In deep stack poker you simply can't call an all in on the flop with this hand either when you hit top pair. Now I'm not saying never but you have to worry about sets or two pair. Far more often than not you are beat. If it's only two overcards you have 6 outs to beat a flopped pair. You are an 77% underdog against a hand like 86s on a 6 high board. If the flop comes 842 and someone has A2s you are an 85% underdog with AK and a smart opponent may have put you on exactly that because you 3bet. Run some poker stoves for different hand ranges.
Suffice to say, in deep stack games you play on every street betting for value and folding to aggression without the nuts or close to the nuts. Making your disciplined folds will win you a lot of money in the long run. I also think its wise to try to play tighter in loose games and lag it up in tight games. Good Luck.
I just feel a lot of the times in a game like this you get blown out of a lot of pots when people are semi bluffing and eventually you bleed away by calling or raise/folding when you miss.
In a tougher game I'm definitely adjusting the bet sizing etc, as ranges tighten and it makes the game a little bit more of skill then a straight gamble.