Almost Almost Almost in the FT thread....

SuitedPairSuitedPair
in MTT Strategy
so played the final MicroMills shove a ment. a 1+r hyper turbo resulting in 2.5 hours of craziness.

so close to my first real entry in the FT post that isn't congratulating someone else.......arg.

Had some run good like when AJ>AQ all in but otherwise got it in good as for the most part my M never cleared 5 even though I was in the top 10 6 or 7 times during the tourney.

So, get to my final hand. I'm sure it's snap call but maybe not looking at the places left and how the money goes up in the next few spots.

12 left, 10-12, get 279. 9 gets 407.99, 8th gets almost 6 bills or so.

PokerStars Hand #83720808416: Tournament #2012070100, $0.98+$0.02 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XLII (600000/1200000) - 2012/07/23 0:23:15 ET
Table '2012070100 332' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Pitatoe (1435580 in chips)
Seat 3: KicsiLidO01 (4226400 in chips)
Seat 4: sabzz (4292885 in chips)
Seat 6: Jaybone61 (12348450 in chips)
Seat 7: Richie912 (3287916 in chips)
Seat 8: FdoOchoTres (2081909 in chips)
Pitatoe: posts the ante 240000
KicsiLidO01: posts the ante 240000
sabzz: posts the ante 240000
Jaybone61: posts the ante 240000
Richie912: posts the ante 240000
FdoOchoTres: posts the ante 240000
sabzz: posts small blind 600000
Jaybone61: posts big blind 1200000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pitatoe [Ad Th]
Pitatoe said, "gg" - to dude on previous hand
Richie912: raises 1847916 to 3047916 and is all-in - playing quite a few hands. playing 47/35 over 20 hands
FdoOchoTres has timed out
FdoOchoTres: folds
FdoOchoTres is sitting out
Pitatoe: calls 1195580 and is all-in - you get it in here too? so effing short I think there is no option. results in white.
KicsiLidO01: calls 3047916
FdoOchoTres has returned
sabzz: folds
Jaybone61: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d Jh 2d]
Jaybone61 said, "unbeleivable"
*** TURN *** [8d Jh 2d] [Qh]
*** RIVER *** [8d Jh 2d Qh] [Js]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Richie912: shows [Qc As] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
KicsiLidO01: shows [Jd Ac] (three of a kind, Jacks)
KicsiLidO01 collected 3709092 from side pot
Pitatoe: shows [Ad Th] (a pair of Jacks)
KicsiLidO01 collected 6822320 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10531412 Main pot 6822320. Side pot 3709092. | Rake 0
Board [8d Jh 2d Qh Js]
Seat 1: Pitatoe showed [Ad Th] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 3: KicsiLidO01 (button) showed [Jd Ac] and won (10531412) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 4: sabzz (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Jaybone61 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Richie912 showed [Qc As] and lost with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 8: FdoOchoTres folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    you should put this in the (beta) nash calculator at holdemresources.net there are 12 payouts and nash only does nine but we can get some understanding from it.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Def el foldo
  • SuitedPairSuitedPair
    costanza wrote: »
    Def el foldo
    Why though?
    UTG raise must be strong even from 45/37?
    payout step ups? I'm about to hit the blinds that will soak up my entire stack.

    idk, I think I had to make a move if I wanted to go beyond just top 11.

    will nash it up after work.
  • ILike2PlayILike2Play
    Call because the only way to win is doubling up and like you say the blinds are going to eat you and you probably won't see much better than A10 in the next few hands. I played in it as well and often guys are jamming with any A so he could have easily turned over A9 or lower. I do prefer to be suited for the flush option but I don't think you had much choice. Hyper turbo just makes it such an automatic call
  • moosemoose
    His M is less than 1. It's not even a question.

    Ave. M<3. The entire table should have gone allin and got this over with. $1 life nits lol.
  • ILike2PlayILike2Play
    Does M matter as much in Hyper Turbo? $1 nits is true but I think 1st place was $7K so I think anyone would be nitty at that point :)
  • SuitedPairSuitedPair
    moose wrote: »
    His M is less than 1. It's not even a question.

    Ave. M<3. The entire table should have gone allin and got this over with. $1 life nits lol.

    sure, but the prizes go up a mile in the next few places. why would you shove? it's a hyper turbo that jacks up the blinds and antes every 2 minutes. This would happen if it was buck or a 5k buy in. (though lets be serious, you aren't getting 9k people to buy in for 5k in a hyper.....)

    it becomes a different tactic set in this type of tourney. I think it shifts the line for +-ev situations when the game structure is so donk-ament-ative. (new word, trade marked but y'all can use it)

    going to nash it up tonight and see how close it really was though I will have to make some assumptions.
  • moosemoose
    Because you are trying to win that is where the most money is. There are less than five hands before being blinded out. Somehow you expect a better spot?
  • UnknownUnknown
    In key ICM spots like this where pay jumps are literally 50+ buy ins, M ratio flies out the window. we shove wide but call tight, even with so little beibs I'd rather shove 79s than re shove iso ATo in this particular spot.

    Also, at this stage and pot odds with antes and blinds being so high, M really isn't such a big deal, especially being a hyper, ICM will greatly affect our range.

    I've FTd hypers before, and FT avg was like 6-8 bb, guys with 10bb is huge stack.




    should prolly Nash it tho
  • moosemoose
    Next hand he will have less than a big blind so you would rather shove 79s into a random hand that the big blind can not fold (less than 50% equity, btw) than use A10 which is way over anyone's shoving range?

    6 handed, holding A10, prob of a larger A is under 15%.

    If you play to lose you will lose. 99% prob of that.
  • jdAA88jdAA88
    there is no way I am folding this

    edit: look at HH from here, so you are aware of stack sizes:
    http://weaktight.com/4869884
  • UnknownUnknown
    Lmao dis regard everything I said
  • SuitedPairSuitedPair
    So, there were two tables left and the nash calc will only let me put in one. how do I simulate the remaining players? add a big stack as UTG and assume they fold?

    if I nash it like there are only 6 left it is a clear fold without adjusting opponent ranges from nash.AQo is the lowest call on a UTG shove for my position.

    Thanks guys.

    Yeah, my thought was it is very unlikely I'm getting a better shot to run for the top in the next few hands and I'm bottom stack but for a dude on the other table. I could have folded and chipped up one spot for same payout but two spots = 100 buy ins...well 20 since I spent 5 total to get through the add on.
  • MackeMacke
    how much you win?
  • SuitedPairSuitedPair
    $279 for 12th from $5 total buy in
  • UnknownUnknown
    SuitedPair wrote: »

    if I nash it like there are only 6 left it is a clear fold without adjusting opponent ranges from nash.AQo is the lowest call on a UTG shove for my position.
    People need to stop guessing, I mean its fine to give an opinion that is wrong, but ICM is tricky and spots like this are great for learning, notice ATo is a clear fold as entered, and thats with stack playing tightish, if you open them up our calling range gets tighter.

    Not saying one way or another but were not done adjusting this, def needs to be explored. We are only like to move up one pay spot and 3 people could easily bust next hand.

    If I thought everyone would fold I would prob call, but if original shove is getting called for sure this is prob a fold.

    Edit: I forgot, suited pair, was hoping you would post the link to the nash so we could reference it...if its not up ill do it later prob
  • SuitedPairSuitedPair
    I was wondering if I need to take into account the other table and if so, how to account for those chips

    there were 12 left, 6 on my table and 6 on the other.

    if not I'll jam it in with just the players on my table
  • UnknownUnknown
    SuitedPair wrote: »
    I was wondering if I need to take into account the other table and if so, how to account for those chips

    there were 12 left, 6 on my table and 6 on the other.

    if not I'll jam it in with just the players on my table
    I'm not sure the real answer to that, and maybe we'll find out. I have an idea of how to do it for real but its too far above me to even spit it out yet.

    But here I think we can first look at the chip ev version, so the payouts would be '1' with just 6 players (our table).

    And compare that with 10 players using some of the players at the other table and entering 10 payouts. I'm not sure how accurate that would be but it should give us a trend.

    Thats guess though but we can work from there.
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