GTA on How to Crush Live NL Cash Games 5/5 and Below
Post 1, here we go:
I thought I would start a thread detailing ways for everyone who is already a winning player with a solid understanding of the game to make more more at live NL cash games. There is no doubt that at the right tables ABC poker can make you decent money up to 5/5NL, but being a great player can make you even more money and makes the game much more fun to play. I see nit regs grinding all day waiting to flop a set vs a fish, but to me there is so much more to being a great cash game player. Most live cash players these days understand hand values and maybe even position...so if you have 9 people sitting there playing their cards you need to elevate yourself to being able to win without just waiting for a good run of cards.
The keys to increasing winrate (in no order, this is just sort of rambling but I thought it would be a good starting point...likely leaving things out):
1. Adequate Bankroll -- you have to see your chips as gamepieces. You can't be afraid to bluff and get caught or to make hero calls in the right spots or to showdown crap. You can't be up $300 or $500 in a session and go into lockdown mode. You have to realize that every play you make at the table that is seen by other players can make you money later in a session (or later in the week or month if you play with regs at a casino or home game). If you do not yet have a bankroll gives you the padding to reload and absorb some losses then just play ABC until you get there.
2. Overall Table Assessment -- I have never sat at a table that is not beatable, never. Some tables are tough, but it is rare (maybe 1/20 tables) that I sit at a table 5/5 or lower and think that it is a tough table. Tables are all different and that's what makes the game of poker great. You are constantly playing exactly the same game but always with different variables -- different players, different stack sizes, different tilt levels of playes, etc, etc. I often hear regs complain that the table is terrible because there is no action -- so I at those tables I create action. I straddle, I raise constantly until I get people playing back at me, etc. At aggro tables I tighten up (a bit). It is very rare to find a live game where players are going to 3bet you light in response to your play, so take advantage of tight tables and build small pots HU and take them down. Conversely, if I see a player raising preflop way too often then I assess any hands I get to see, assess how often he is Cbetting, check-folding, etc and then when all of that is factored in I pick spots to 3bet him without even needing to look and my cards. You don't always need a hand to win a pot.
3. Be A Great Post-Flop Player/Understand How Your Opponent Plays -- this seems innate to me, but I guess it comes with experience. This is what really separates a great cash game player from a great tourney player IMO. Cash games are very little about preflop hand values and very much about post flop play. Tournament play is geared more towards preflop hand values. It's best to go through hands to figure out where you are as a post-flop player. Know your opponent's playing style and assign ranges and figure out what flops are good to single and multi-barrel on and what flops aren't worth putting much more money into the pot. You can't win every pot, but you can win many more with aggression. You have to be able to do more than trap with a set if you want to maximize your winrate.
4. Observe All Hands and Figure Out A Scenario Where You Can Stack Each Player -- nits that won't fold big preflop pairs, calling stations, etc...what do you need to do to stack each opponent.
5. Never Tilt -- it's a game, you lose sometimes. It's never personal. If you aren't having fun then leave.
6. Always Buy-In For The Max at Limits You Play Regularly and Top-Up -- if you are comfortable at the stakes then you want to make the most on your big hands.
7. Know YOUR Table Image -- other players will eventually adjust their hand value range to what you are showing down and to the frequency of your raises. You need to factor this in when facing bets and when making calls.
8. Figure Out Your Odds vs All Ins -- this especially applies vs short stacks. If you are getting 2:1+ HU on a call you better have a good reason to fold. I see wayyy too many players with less than $200 behind fold in the wrong spots HU because they do not factor in what is already in the pot or assign a range to the villain and figure out their odds before folding.
Sample Hand 1 -- The Power of The Tard:
1/3 Caesar's LV, 300max: table is super passive as are most 1/2, 1/3 Vegas games.
I have played 95% of my hands and am probably about even but sitting with $500 or so due to reloading $100 at a time. I imagine my preflop raise %age is conservatively 40%+ (could be 80%, not sure) and some of these raises are retarded sizes...limped to me 6 ways and I go 80 without looking and take it down then show 2 random cards, etc...I'm having fun with Wetts at the table and have real intention of making money at this table. When I play 1/2 or 1/3 I like to try different things to see what I can get away with, etc...sort of a fun experiment and I take some small things over to bigger games after and try them out. I am basically seen as a retard to the rest of the table.
EP player raises to 15-20 (was a while ago, but some standard live raise amount)..I call with A3 in LP, may have been another 1-2 players in the hand but it's not really relevant here. Effective stacks around 250-300.
Flop AK3r...#bonk?
Opponent is fairly new to the table but has likely been there long enough to see what I am doing every hand -- is 45ish and by all accounts appears to be a pretty conservative and not good player. At the same time, I imagine that he is thinking that if he wants to keep playing with AT+ that he may as well just get it in now vs me because I'm just going to shove the turn anyhow.
He bets, I raise, he thinks and shoves...hand range should be crushing me but factoring in that I am likely an idiot in his mind I can never fold.
We are all in on the flop and the board runs AK3Kx.
I win.
Wat?
He had JT.
1 for the tard...Wetts' face, priceless.
I know there aren't many live cash game players on here, but it is truly the easiest way to consistently make money at poker. This will be a good place to post any hands or questions if anyone is looking to improve...if not then I will just post some interesting hands that come-up during my sessions out here in Cali.
I thought I would start a thread detailing ways for everyone who is already a winning player with a solid understanding of the game to make more more at live NL cash games. There is no doubt that at the right tables ABC poker can make you decent money up to 5/5NL, but being a great player can make you even more money and makes the game much more fun to play. I see nit regs grinding all day waiting to flop a set vs a fish, but to me there is so much more to being a great cash game player. Most live cash players these days understand hand values and maybe even position...so if you have 9 people sitting there playing their cards you need to elevate yourself to being able to win without just waiting for a good run of cards.
The keys to increasing winrate (in no order, this is just sort of rambling but I thought it would be a good starting point...likely leaving things out):
1. Adequate Bankroll -- you have to see your chips as gamepieces. You can't be afraid to bluff and get caught or to make hero calls in the right spots or to showdown crap. You can't be up $300 or $500 in a session and go into lockdown mode. You have to realize that every play you make at the table that is seen by other players can make you money later in a session (or later in the week or month if you play with regs at a casino or home game). If you do not yet have a bankroll gives you the padding to reload and absorb some losses then just play ABC until you get there.
2. Overall Table Assessment -- I have never sat at a table that is not beatable, never. Some tables are tough, but it is rare (maybe 1/20 tables) that I sit at a table 5/5 or lower and think that it is a tough table. Tables are all different and that's what makes the game of poker great. You are constantly playing exactly the same game but always with different variables -- different players, different stack sizes, different tilt levels of playes, etc, etc. I often hear regs complain that the table is terrible because there is no action -- so I at those tables I create action. I straddle, I raise constantly until I get people playing back at me, etc. At aggro tables I tighten up (a bit). It is very rare to find a live game where players are going to 3bet you light in response to your play, so take advantage of tight tables and build small pots HU and take them down. Conversely, if I see a player raising preflop way too often then I assess any hands I get to see, assess how often he is Cbetting, check-folding, etc and then when all of that is factored in I pick spots to 3bet him without even needing to look and my cards. You don't always need a hand to win a pot.
3. Be A Great Post-Flop Player/Understand How Your Opponent Plays -- this seems innate to me, but I guess it comes with experience. This is what really separates a great cash game player from a great tourney player IMO. Cash games are very little about preflop hand values and very much about post flop play. Tournament play is geared more towards preflop hand values. It's best to go through hands to figure out where you are as a post-flop player. Know your opponent's playing style and assign ranges and figure out what flops are good to single and multi-barrel on and what flops aren't worth putting much more money into the pot. You can't win every pot, but you can win many more with aggression. You have to be able to do more than trap with a set if you want to maximize your winrate.
4. Observe All Hands and Figure Out A Scenario Where You Can Stack Each Player -- nits that won't fold big preflop pairs, calling stations, etc...what do you need to do to stack each opponent.
5. Never Tilt -- it's a game, you lose sometimes. It's never personal. If you aren't having fun then leave.
6. Always Buy-In For The Max at Limits You Play Regularly and Top-Up -- if you are comfortable at the stakes then you want to make the most on your big hands.
7. Know YOUR Table Image -- other players will eventually adjust their hand value range to what you are showing down and to the frequency of your raises. You need to factor this in when facing bets and when making calls.
8. Figure Out Your Odds vs All Ins -- this especially applies vs short stacks. If you are getting 2:1+ HU on a call you better have a good reason to fold. I see wayyy too many players with less than $200 behind fold in the wrong spots HU because they do not factor in what is already in the pot or assign a range to the villain and figure out their odds before folding.
Sample Hand 1 -- The Power of The Tard:
1/3 Caesar's LV, 300max: table is super passive as are most 1/2, 1/3 Vegas games.
I have played 95% of my hands and am probably about even but sitting with $500 or so due to reloading $100 at a time. I imagine my preflop raise %age is conservatively 40%+ (could be 80%, not sure) and some of these raises are retarded sizes...limped to me 6 ways and I go 80 without looking and take it down then show 2 random cards, etc...I'm having fun with Wetts at the table and have real intention of making money at this table. When I play 1/2 or 1/3 I like to try different things to see what I can get away with, etc...sort of a fun experiment and I take some small things over to bigger games after and try them out. I am basically seen as a retard to the rest of the table.
EP player raises to 15-20 (was a while ago, but some standard live raise amount)..I call with A3 in LP, may have been another 1-2 players in the hand but it's not really relevant here. Effective stacks around 250-300.
Flop AK3r...#bonk?
Opponent is fairly new to the table but has likely been there long enough to see what I am doing every hand -- is 45ish and by all accounts appears to be a pretty conservative and not good player. At the same time, I imagine that he is thinking that if he wants to keep playing with AT+ that he may as well just get it in now vs me because I'm just going to shove the turn anyhow.
He bets, I raise, he thinks and shoves...hand range should be crushing me but factoring in that I am likely an idiot in his mind I can never fold.
We are all in on the flop and the board runs AK3Kx.
I win.
Wat?
He had JT.
1 for the tard...Wetts' face, priceless.
I know there aren't many live cash game players on here, but it is truly the easiest way to consistently make money at poker. This will be a good place to post any hands or questions if anyone is looking to improve...if not then I will just post some interesting hands that come-up during my sessions out here in Cali.
Comments
P.S. we should hide it from the rest of the world though.
I used to play quite a bit with a guy very similar to you I think, he also is one of the guys who goes on our annual AC trip. I love playing at the same table as him, because like you he tends to attract all the attention to himself while I play the typical ol nit and profit from his seeming wildness..
Early on he plays almost every hand, raising seemingly randomly and table tilts hard.. Funny to see the reaction almost every time he plays.
Keep it up Dave, enjoy this stuff..
Understanding that when u call an allin for like $100 at a 1/2 game with 5/6 off at an agressive table it sets the tone for bigger pots later on.
It also helps when you bonk a third 6 on the river, amirite?
was turn...remembering hands correctly helps too
what are the games like there? what limits, rake, etc? would be a cool place for a poker vacation
The thing is that almost every live grinder at these limits is content with a mediocre hourly rate and would never risk anything for a chance to improve. I could show them my hourly rate over the years and teach them how to play better but liely 90% of them wouldn't risk a chip in situations where I would.
Having played years of live cash games I can tell you that is very rare to find a player that adjusts to a table correctly, if at all. I can play with the same regs every day for a year and never see a certain person bluff, always see a certain person check when they hit top set on a dry board, etc, etc...and they will never change because they are making some money at the right tables.
When I raise UTG I have virtually no set range...at a passive table (which is most tables at these limits) with 150bb stacks I can have 24 suited up to aces. Players not being able to put me on hands with me being able to assign them a range gives me a large edge.
This is definitely good stuff.....keep it up
If casino rules are a bit too stiff for your taste there's a good poker club 4 subway stops away running tournaments and cashgames between 10/10kr and I've seen all the way up to 200/200kr, something that seems to run pretty frequently at that club is 50/50kr dealers choice between hold em, omaha and pinapple, a pretty good table to play if you have the roll for it (stacks get pretty deep, 100 BB's are standard for most but I've seen all the way up to 40.000kr stacks
As for the level of play most tables are soft, I think you'd have no problem beating 95% of tables. If anything I think a lot of the players at the casino are pretty stubborn pre flop and pretty easy postflop so my impression of the games have been that they're juicy as long as you identify the regs
Northern Europeans . . .
Will read again.
May 18, 2012 Live at the Bike Hand of the Night on Vimeo
When there is two all ins it kind of bothers me how some people wait until the end to flip their cards.
I will try to find a couple interesting spots from my $1/$2 ($400 max) session tonight for your comments.
What are your thoughts on re-raising pre-flop at a weak table? The regular game I play at, you may see 2 or 3 re-raises pre-flop over a four hour session. Usually the re-raise takes down the hand pre-flop.
Most players are calling stations pre-flop, and they will just call the $2 and if it gets re-raised (even to $20), they will just call pre-flop. Do you like to try and steal a lot of pots in this situation?
Depends on the table. When I first started playing poker I played my hand just like everyone else. When I started thinking more about the game I realized that there are so many exploitable spots but people don't want to get out of line.
Just look at your example. How often do 3 bets take down pots preflop in a 1/2 game -- VERY often. Why not play around with the concept and add this as a tool in your game. Sometimes you will win chips uncontested and sometimes you will see a flop heads up. Very rarely KK or AA will 4 bet you and you will lose chips preflop. You need to have a plan formulated when you do get called and be able to assigns a range of hands to the player flatting your 3 bet based on your knowledge of him. Based on this you should know what flops to Cbet and what flops to give up on at times, etc. You have to take into account stack sizes and what's in the pot to know if you are committed to the pot when you feel you are only 30% vs a range, etc.
Even if overall you only break even with this play alone you are becoming much more difficult to read and the times that you do have a monster you will get paid more often. People see you as loose or at least very active and are more likely to call you down lighter when you have a monster. So overall adding this element to your game should make you a larger winner although it will certainly add more variance than playing ABC poker.
This also loosens up the table. I've seen some rocks make really retarded plays at me when they get fed up and decide to take a stand. 2 or 3 barreling me with AK on a wet board that they miss , etc.
I suggest trying some moves here and there at stakes where the money doesn't concern you too much and just have fun. Have the mindset that you are going to "play poker" and not just grind for profit. How many times have you thought that this would be a great spot to reraise bluff a river but you can't do it and end up folding, see the winning hand and know that a raise of $100 would have taken down the pot? We have all had those spots, but pulling the trigger now and then and taking it down is much better than always folding. When you are wrong and get called down show down your bluff and get paid later based on the image that you can bluff at times.
I've had to adjust in Cali a bit because here you can squeeze 4 $20 callers to $140 and get 3 callers, whereas in Vegas or Alberta (in general) you almost never have that happen. Cali players are WAY looser and I have to adjust by playing tighter.
Always have the mantra of playing the opposite of the table in your mind and try and act on it in the correct spots. Of course, you have to adjust to other players' image of you as the session progresses too...it's a large ongoing dynamic.
Saw good example of this last night where the player making the play, 3 bet the wrong guy. This guy earlier in the night called an all-in with 109 on a 10 high board (seen him stack off several times with top pair, shitty kicker). Not the player you want to make a move on. Guy raises $120 into his $20 bet, with only about $70 behind. TPTK goes all-in and 3 bettor feels committed so he makes a unwanted call. TKTP shows A8 and 3 bettor shows 35 suited. 35 wins the pot when a 5 hits. Definitely a juicy 1/2 game
villian was a loud middle aged guy, massage the whole time he plays, gold everything, drinking cognac, thought he was the shit for playing 2/5 on the reg lol. He was berating me for wearing a pokerstars hoodie and my beats haha I had only been at the table not even an orbit after being moved when the other table that was running broke.
I have a bit over 1K in front of me, him 3K +
Have AKo EP, I open for 20 , folds all around to BB who flats. flop came KJ8 rainbow
he checks in the dark, even before the dealer peels the board lol, I c bet 30$ , he calls, and checks dark again.
turn was a Qh , I fire 65$ , he clicks it back to $130, I call.
river was a blank, he checked to me, I tanked then fired 150$, he clicks it back to 300
easy fold? probably should have checked it down, i hate myself for betting in this spot.
I know TPTK here is blah, but I had a real tough time putting him on a range. Checking dark really fucked with me, and being a primarily online player, it tilted me ... from his little jab's at me I thought he was either a) trying to out play me or b) was nutted.
i would like to hear your observation as you have much more live experience. If you could touch on checking in the dark as well, I would really appreciate it.
thanks.
1) As you check your cards watch to see who isn't looking at you.
2) Yell, "I check dark!"
3) Push the free money button.
As far as your player profile it doesn't tell me much without actual hands shown down, raising frequency, etc...hard to assume anything by physical characteristics.
I generally play this hand post flop for 2 streets of value, not 3. I mean you have a strong hand but not a hand where you want to be put to a big decision 200bb deep.
Preflop and flop I play the same most of the time.
I generally check the turn to make it look like I was Cbetting air and either call a bet on the river or bet $60-80 if it is checked to me... depending on what I think will get a call and balancing what value is least likely to get raised by a better hand that is not the nuts. I will likely check behind if a terrible card like a jack or ace falls on the river -- against some players I will still value bet these cards. In general, I am folding to a raise on the river.
If you want a rule then if you fold every time you get min (or any amount, really) check raised on the river at these stakes then you will rarely be folding the best hand. In fact, a min raise on any street is usually done with what the raiser perceives as the nuts (especially when he is on the nittier side)...overall, it's a huge bet sizing tell.
checking turn was a better line i think too.
thanx for the insight man.
Any pair/any ace/any king