overpair oop in 3bet pot

Richard~

vs the two flatters at the table.The turn play is the interesting part, what are your thoughts on our options?

PokerStars Hand #83223034240: Tournament #582829278, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2012/07/12 21:20:56 CET [2012/07/12 15:20:56 ET]
Table '582829278 41' 8-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Bummibaby (4705 in chips)
Seat 2: fr0st1988 (4740 in chips)
Seat 4: Ssamossa (7722 in chips)
Seat 5: LCiri (3195 in chips)
Seat 6: Ertu1963 (1347 in chips)
Seat 7: michalki34 (1769 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: IRichardI (8640 in chips)
IRichardI: posts small blind 40
Bummibaby: posts big blind 80
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IRichardI [Kh Kc]
fr0st1988: raises 160 to 240
Ssamossa: calls 240
LCiri: folds
Ertu1963: folds
michalki34: folds
IRichardI: raises 560 to 800
Bummibaby: folds
fr0st1988: calls 560
Ssamossa: calls 560
*** FLOP *** [2s 5c Qc]
IRichardI: bets 1040
fr0st1988: folds
Ssamossa: calls 1040
*** TURN *** [2s 5c Qc] [Qs]
IRichardI: checks
Ssamossa: bets 1600
IRichardI:

trigs

ugly turn. tough spot. i'm probably not good enough to fold here heh.

Richard~

well if it helps there was a similar hand before where I made a similar 3bet. checked flop, led turn with the same sizing and two players folded. I think there's at least a chance he's getting stubborn here with less than a queen

trigs

Richard~ wrote: »

well if it helps there was a similar hand before where I made a similar 3bet. checked flop, led turn with the same sizing and two players folded. I think there's at least a chance he's getting stubborn here with less than a queen

possible. he could be trying to steal with a flush draw thinking you might have AK and missed.

trigs

...

Unknown

editing

Hellmuth's Mole

I think Ssamossa thinks his/her 99 might be winning the race against your AK. I c/r 4th st. and am not good enough to fold to shove.

Unknown

didn't realize he had position. seems like call and blocking bet the river for value/fold to a raise?

Richard~

darb touched on some of the things I was thinking about. I think checkfolding without a better read is bad, I think we beat enough of villains range to continute with the hand. If I was that scared of the turn I think I'd rather double barrel third pot and fold to a raise althought I don't like that either cause villain can just be getting brave with 9s (we're not really deep compared to the pot going into the turn)

what I did was tank for a long time before deciding to shove. my reasoning was that after 3 betting pre and cbetting, if I flat the turn bet I almost always have what I'm repping which is a valuehand pre that got worried when the turn hit. I'm not gonna do some wierd float to the river without showdown value and I think villain understands that I have to have something when I flat. That's why I felt villain was more likely to shut down river if he was bluffing or just check back his value non nut hands every single time while also drawing for free when he has clubs.

The downside is that you get owned the times he has a nut hand here but I felt like if I don't think I can get him to spew I'm better off taking a line that doesn't define my hand so clearly that even non regs might see through it

Richard~

darbday wrote: »

didn't realize he had position. seems like call and blocking bet the river for value/fold to a raise?

this is something that's just never in my toolbox, not saying it's bad but I don't understand it that well. anyway, if I flat we're going into the river with right under a potsized bet in our stack

Unknown

Richard~ wrote: »

this is something that's just never in my toolbox, not saying it's bad but I don't understand it that well. anyway, if I flat we're going into the river with right under a potsized bet in our stack

this was never in my tool box either, don't know when or how i picked it up exactly but I used to be a check caller on the river always rather than ever bet/folding. I just sort of make it look like thin value from us having a Qx hand so its hard to come over top. And a worse hands can call sometimes.

Some spots are kinda funny to see people raise your blocking bet though. He can't really raise for value with any qx on the river if you are folding anything less than trips.

Vs certain regs that think im mindless bet turn to induce/shove vs his raise, and check-shove the river if he just flats the turn ? Some people float wide when you double barrel this turn cause you obv don't have it (not this villain prob). But when they hit the river with air (or sometimes even showdown value) they can help but bluff a committing amount (trying to rep a queen).

post flop kinda makes my head spin tho

Richard~

darbday wrote: »

this was never in my tool box either, don't know when or how i picked it up exactly but I used to be a check caller on the river always rather than ever bet/folding. I just sort of make it look like thin value from us having a Qx hand so its hard to come over top. And a worse hands can call sometimes.

Some spots are kinda funny to see people raise your blocking bet though. He can't really raise for value with any qx on the river if you are folding anything less than trips.

Vs certain regs that think im mindless bet turn to induce/shove vs his raise, and check-shove the river if he just flats the turn ? Some people float wide when you double barrel this turn cause you obv don't have it (not this villain prob). But when they hit the river with air (or sometimes even showdown value) they can help but bluff a committing amount (trying to rep a queen).

post flop kinda makes my head spin tho

buy you're never taking the 3bet pre - cbet - check call - donk river line with a queen. you're probably more inclined to get a checkraise in on the turn since a big part of what you're getting value from are draws and bluffs

Also, do you really think people will be likely fire the third barrel into you on the river light even though you've shown as much resistence as you have by showing strenght preflop with the 3bet, flop with the cbet and turn with the call after giving up the lead?

Unknown

Richard~ wrote: »

buy you're never taking the 3bet pre - cbet - check call - donk river line with a queen.

I think he'll only realize this a small percent of time, and he'll only act on it an even smaller percent.

you're probably more inclined to get a checkraise in on the turn since a big part of what you're getting value from are draws and bluffs

Yes thats true, but we can pretend we are trying to be 'sneaky' with a queen. I think most random players check a queen there themselves, unless they get scared then they'll just try to get it all in. I think villains expects us to check a queen there a lot.

Also, do you really think people will be likely fire the third barrel into you on the river light even though you've shown as much resistance as you have by showing strenght preflop with the 3bet, flop with the cbet and turn with the call after giving up the lead?

I think your asking about the blocking bet here? I'm just thinking we can define our own price. If we check the river he'll prob value bet a queen or better a lot bigger than our blocking bet, and we also have the bonus of him call the blocking bet with worse.

Saves us from have to make a crying call or folding the best hand maybe?
These are just thoughts my post flop = lacking.

Unknown

I cram here , and chalk it up to variance if he has trips and say gg

Unknown

I just remember that i started bet folding these spots from an interview i watched with sjlot. She said she got her edge in a tourney from making marginal and thin value bets.

Richard~

I do marginal and thin value lines

Unknown

Richard~ wrote: »

I do marginal and thin value lines

me too but only when they're in front of me