On-line poker - a question...
I am guessing that a lot of people on this site like to play on-line. That's cool, am I am not here to diss on it or anyone who likes it.
I have tried it out a few times, and just can't get into it. Maybe it's because I've had a few bad runs, but I find that almost everything I love about poker is absent from the on-line game.
I love stacking chips (who doesn't) and the feel of the cards in my hand, and I also like not having to worry about people getting cut off their PC's, or dealing with people who might be working, or jacking off at the same time and taking a year to make a simple call, but the biggest thing that I enjoy is actually being able to see my opponents.
I think being able to read other players effectively is the single biggest advantage that you can ever have as a poker player, and I am just wondering, how you on-line guys do it?
I have tried it out a few times, and just can't get into it. Maybe it's because I've had a few bad runs, but I find that almost everything I love about poker is absent from the on-line game.
I love stacking chips (who doesn't) and the feel of the cards in my hand, and I also like not having to worry about people getting cut off their PC's, or dealing with people who might be working, or jacking off at the same time and taking a year to make a simple call, but the biggest thing that I enjoy is actually being able to see my opponents.
I think being able to read other players effectively is the single biggest advantage that you can ever have as a poker player, and I am just wondering, how you on-line guys do it?
Comments
The main reason I play more often online is the convenience. The nearest cardroom to me is over an hour away, and taking into account driving time, and waiting time, I'd say I usually spend over 3 hours time on non-poker things (driving, etc), and about $30 on things like gasoline, border crossing fees, and food.
Let's say I have an 8 hour poker session. Online that amounts to around 400-500 hands (more if you like to play more tables, but I generally stick to one). During the same time span, I generally get around 5 hours of B&M play, which amounts to around 150 hands. That's quite a difference.
If you're worried about the speed of the game, online is the right choice for you. The very best human dealers can probably crank out around 40 hands per hour, but on average, you're realistically looking at around 25-30 hands per hour in a B&M game. Online games typically go at around 60 hands per hour or more. The slowest online game probably still goes faster than the fastest B&M game. The occasional player taking the time to scratch his nuts online won't even come close to covering the time it takes a human being to shuffle & deal cards every single hand. And just imagine the dire consequences of the former happening in a B&M game...
The online "slow player problem" here is probably mainly due to perception. Since the average player plays so much faster online, you probably *really* notice someone who takes 10 seconds to make a play. However, in a B&M setting, probably *every* player is taking 3 or 4 seconds just to execute the physical portion of their action (grabbing some chips to bet, or folding their cards, or taking some time to observe the bets which are already out there when the action gets to them). The normal pace is so much faster online that you'll notice more the deviations to that fast pace than you would notice the slower overall pace in B&M.
Also, online, there is much more game selection. I can play whatever limit I feel like from 2 cents - 4 cents to $100-$200. I can play cash games or tournaments. I can play no-limit. I can find games 24 hours per day. In the nearest cardroom to me, there is normally only one table of 3-6 going, sometimes two, sometimes a 5-10 also, and occasionally there are no table going at all.
The rake is lower online. This makes a huge difference in low limit, and, since low limit is the only choice at my B&M cardroom, it makes a huge difference to me.
The main disadvantage of playing online (and still a very good reason to go to the real casino now and then) is the player skill level is somewhat higher online. True that you get enough bad players online to make the game playable, but the truly clueless seem to show up in greater numbers in the B&M rooms.
I personally don't pick up too many tells from watching real life players, so this change doesn't affect me too much. This is clearly something you can't even attempt to do online. You have to adjust your game accordingly, and I have found that playing online has probably even sharpened my "card sense". I.e. I have learned to read (more accurately, classify) players more by their betting patterns, and hand selection. The nice thing about this sort of player-typing is you can't Hollywood your starting hand requirements.
Believe me, if I had a B&M cardroom nearby (say a 20 minute drive or less), I'd certainly be a regular there. But, for now, online poker seems like the better choice for me most of the time.
ScottyZ
Obviously you don't want to burden yourself and your play by having too many going at once. But churning out 120 hands/hour by playing 2 tables isn't too hard for most people I would imagine.
I definitely found that On-line poker made me play about 97% more poker, which in my case, was not good, since I didn't win. I mostly played in tournaments tho...
One thing I did like about On-Line was playing stud, which I fucking love. With the explosion in popularity of hold em, I find many people have forgotten that stud is a really interesting game as well, and is excellent for bluffing.
stp
I think Scotty pretty much covered a lot of the benefits of online play--I'll just reiterate the point about convenience and proximity. You live closer to Brantford than I do, but not by much, and you know as well as I do that the drive/wait time seriously cuts into the time you set aside for poker.
As for not being able to read people, well, that's obviously true. But, I think that while you can't read people, you can still 'get a read on' people. I used to play a whole lot of shorthanded online poker, usually with any four of about 40 people who played in the game I did.
After hours and hours of online play with these people--and when it's shorthanded online I think that amounts to about a million hands/hr--you get a definite feel about who you can bluff, who's trying to bluff you, who is going for a checkraise, who is raising for a free card, who will check behind you on the turn without the nuts, etc... by basing your decisions on previous actions in previous hands, the betting sequence in this hand, and the board.
But obviously this only becomes a factor if you see the same players on a regular basis. In the vast majority of online games (10/20 and under) it's possible to play on a regular basis and never see the same player twice.
Bizaatch.
all_aces
ps: With all that being said, nothing beats the feeling of having a big stack of clay chips in your hand and the word 'raise' coming out of your mouth.
Yeah, I usually do this while playing online, but it's just not quite the same...
8)
ScottyZ