How much rake?
I've noticed some lively :eek: discussion recently concerning rake. I thought we could use a separate thread to consider all the issues surrounding rake.
Ground rules: no discussion of rakes at specific venues. In some circles, charging a rake would be considered illegal so it isn't right for us to drag our good hosts into this. This is meant to be more of a general discussion.
What goes into rake? Hall, tables, chips and chairs rental, dealers, security, meal, other costs, profits for tournament director. What else?
Hall rental can vary dramatically. Someone can run a tourney out of their home for free. Are you willing to play in a basement to save a few bucks? Home tourneys can rarely host more than 40 people. That many people can put a lot of strain on a house. I wouldn't want to have to clean up afterwards...
Tables, chips and chairs. Someone hosting a lot of tourneys generally invests in chips and maybe chairs and tables. Otherwise, there's a few bucks required to rent that stuff.
Dealers. You want professional dealers or are you willing to have the players deal?
Security. If there's more than a couple dozen players or a large amount of money in play, security is important. I feel a lot better playing with a bunch of strangers if I know the site is secure.
Meal. Is this all part of the entertainment value? You want something fancy?
Profits. I think it is only fair for the director to get paid something, especially if he is not playing in order to run the tourney. He's taking on the risk in dishing out for expenses in advance.
Obviously, the rake has to cover the expenses. Do expenses vary much with the entry fee? I don't really think so. So the rake is generally inversely proportional to the entry fee - on a small stakes tourney, the rake is going to be a huge chunk.
How much rake are you willing to pay and what do you expect in return? I haven't seen online sites charging less than 5%. Generally it is in the 10% range. And you don't get anything for that. Some home games don't charge a rake or only ask for a couple bucks to cover the small stuff. I've played in private games where the rake was over 50% of the entry fee (much less when the re-buys and add-on are factored in). My take is the rake should only be on the initial entry fee, not on the re-buys or add-on.
To me, the key is to find out what the rake is and decide if it is reasonable. If you don't think so, don't participate. As Scotty has suggested to me, send the organizer a PM and ask for the details. Don't go harping in the guy's thread if you aren't happy about it. Just say no.
For myself, give me a no or low rake, home game, no meal and I'll deal myself.
Please discuss.
Ground rules: no discussion of rakes at specific venues. In some circles, charging a rake would be considered illegal so it isn't right for us to drag our good hosts into this. This is meant to be more of a general discussion.
What goes into rake? Hall, tables, chips and chairs rental, dealers, security, meal, other costs, profits for tournament director. What else?
Hall rental can vary dramatically. Someone can run a tourney out of their home for free. Are you willing to play in a basement to save a few bucks? Home tourneys can rarely host more than 40 people. That many people can put a lot of strain on a house. I wouldn't want to have to clean up afterwards...
Tables, chips and chairs. Someone hosting a lot of tourneys generally invests in chips and maybe chairs and tables. Otherwise, there's a few bucks required to rent that stuff.
Dealers. You want professional dealers or are you willing to have the players deal?
Security. If there's more than a couple dozen players or a large amount of money in play, security is important. I feel a lot better playing with a bunch of strangers if I know the site is secure.
Meal. Is this all part of the entertainment value? You want something fancy?
Profits. I think it is only fair for the director to get paid something, especially if he is not playing in order to run the tourney. He's taking on the risk in dishing out for expenses in advance.
Obviously, the rake has to cover the expenses. Do expenses vary much with the entry fee? I don't really think so. So the rake is generally inversely proportional to the entry fee - on a small stakes tourney, the rake is going to be a huge chunk.
How much rake are you willing to pay and what do you expect in return? I haven't seen online sites charging less than 5%. Generally it is in the 10% range. And you don't get anything for that. Some home games don't charge a rake or only ask for a couple bucks to cover the small stuff. I've played in private games where the rake was over 50% of the entry fee (much less when the re-buys and add-on are factored in). My take is the rake should only be on the initial entry fee, not on the re-buys or add-on.
To me, the key is to find out what the rake is and decide if it is reasonable. If you don't think so, don't participate. As Scotty has suggested to me, send the organizer a PM and ask for the details. Don't go harping in the guy's thread if you aren't happy about it. Just say no.
For myself, give me a no or low rake, home game, no meal and I'll deal myself.
Please discuss.
Comments
Security is important, the other stuff sort of just is nice. I have managed to find a venue that is both free, large, and has access to food and drink. The challenge for me is finding other spaces similar to this one for other events around the city.
I am a fan of no rake. Period.
I have organized three small tournaments (30-40 people), I have charge an entry fee to cover the cost of rentals..and thats all. Any other profit (rebuys, left overs from entry) goes to the pot.
Meals: been to a few with meals and a few without, I guess it didn't make a diff. on my returning.
The whole issue on rake and entry fee's to me is this.....can I make a signifigant gain if I place? Can I afford the entry and buy in without my wife leaving me?
I don't care who profits on what, as long as I can play....you see I am a gambler through and through....I will bet on two cockraoches running across the kitchen floor...and if I have to pay a fee to do so, so be it....as long as I can justify to myself that the entry fee or rake (if so) is going to be worth the entertainment value.
Rob
For a 1-2 two table tourney at a friends house I feel charging a rake is unresonable but if it gets up to 3 or 4 tables I don't mind the host taking a small piece. His buy in or a touch more. Guys are spilling beer messing up the place etc. If I win I am usually tipping the guy anyway..
Bigger well run tourneys at a hall with dealers? I don't mind paying 20% as that is on par with the casinos.
I would prefer them to delete the meal and save us a couple bucks because I go there to play not to eat... Yeah, I know some of you would never have guessed that after watching me play. :redface:
Brent
God no.