An amazing read
Well, sometimes I just like to sit back and admire my amazing abilities and share my brilliance with my fellow forum members. Now tell me if you can make this play without an incredible read!
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8h, 8s.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.
Flop: (9.40 SB) 4d, 2s, 6d (4 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.
Turn: (8.70 BB) 9d (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.
River: (14.70 BB) 2d (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.
Final Pot: 16.70 BB
Results below:
Hero has 8h 8s (two pair, eights and twos).
Button has 6h 4h (two pair, sixes and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 16.70 BB.
Or it was a case of TILT. After 20 hands of getting rivered -- bottom pair hanging in to the river making trips, or 8 high single card flush, or .... Well I just needed to blow off some steam. Now, I may have been dumb, but how does this guy hang in there? What was the worst mistake? Just had to share one of my dumber moments.
Cheers
Magi
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8h, 8s.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.
Flop: (9.40 SB) 4d, 2s, 6d (4 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.
Turn: (8.70 BB) 9d (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.
River: (14.70 BB) 2d (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.
Final Pot: 16.70 BB
Results below:
Hero has 8h 8s (two pair, eights and twos).
Button has 6h 4h (two pair, sixes and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 16.70 BB.
Or it was a case of TILT. After 20 hands of getting rivered -- bottom pair hanging in to the river making trips, or 8 high single card flush, or .... Well I just needed to blow off some steam. Now, I may have been dumb, but how does this guy hang in there? What was the worst mistake? Just had to share one of my dumber moments.
Cheers
Magi
Comments
He flopped two pair and while the board was all babies, it was still highly co-ordinated and he raised an achieved the resired result isolating you.
The turn was a total scare card as it made the flush possible, but his hand may well still be good, since it's not likely that your pre-flop raising hand connected with anything on this board that improved you ... unless you had suited high cards.
River is a devistating card for him, it puts a four flush on the board, and pairs the board killing his hand, but the pot has 15.7 BB in it and he pays you off when YOU RIVER him
Really his only mistake was calling in the first place, but after the flop he played the hand really well actually.
Why are you raising 88 after two limpers? The flop will contain overcards like 60% of the time. That makes for a great sitution where you pay off your opponents the max when they hit and you get little when you do..
I'm going to assume that you mean this in jest and don't actually use it as an excuse for playing badly.
I raise if I think I have the best hand. Two limpers, I'm thinking I have the best hand at that point. If I hit a set, I build a pot that warrants the chases and I get paid. If I don't, I still have position and I likely get a free card. All, in all I like the raise.
I was serious about blowing off steam, not that I was doing it to lose the hand. I just snapped. As all acess once metioned, he's only human. I too am only human and susceptible to tilt. There's really no excuse. After getting raised on the flop, I knew I was behind. I went into a different mode -- maniac -- hoping to get him off the hand. It was an example of a BAD play. I found it amusing and thought I would post it. Hopefully others will see both sides of the coin. The poor pre-flop call by the anti-hero, why two small pairs are really not that good, and the hero's way poor tiltorama play post flop.
Cheers
Magi
Well, I don't know how anti-hero figures he's good at the turn, unless he sees me as a maniac. AK-A9 diamonds along with KQ-KJ of diamonds is very likely the way I played the hand. But, that's just me. It's not a horrible play on his part.
The horrible play on his part is the pre-flop call that gets him into a load of trouble.
THe horrible play on my part -- well that's pretty obvious. Not one of my prouder momenets. I thought it was an amusing hand though.
Cheers
Magi
How loose are these games you are playing in? Two limpers and you think that neither of them would have two overs to 88? What do you do on flops of J62 or Q74? For every bet you put in with low pocket pairs, you need to make up 8 bets for the preflop play to be profitable..
Here's my reasoning for limping along. With 88, I'm looking to make my set. My opponents aren't going to respect my raises, so I can't brute force them out of the pot. If I limp along and miss my set, I'm done with the hand for the cost of 1 sb. Also, Im encouraging the SB and BB to come along for the ride, where they may make top pair against my set and pay me off whereas a raise would have knocked them out of the hand. So for my 1SB preflop investment, I get to play against 5 opponents who can pay me off rather than only 3 in a situation when I have to make up 8BB.
I believe we have the same goal. I'm choosing a different path, fewer opponents (not many fewer, but at least 1 fewer) and bigger pot to chase for the chasers. You're looking at more opponents and fighting with the ones who are in the best spot to beat you. We're both looking for the chasers.
Without a pre-flop raise, there's only 2.5 BB in the pot, at most -- likely 2BB. With the raise, there's likely 4BB maybe 5BB. Now most players really don't know how to calculate odds, they just see that the pot is big. Now, they can chase with bottom pair, hail mary str8, one card to the flush. With a small pot, they're not as likely to chase -- say calling two cold on the flop, or turn. I can pop the turn, and even someone who can't calcluate odds will see they have odds to call two cold to make their straight. The beauty of this, is that the flush/str8 chaser gets caught between me and two-pair, and doesn't realize how thin he is drawing.
I don't go much lower than pocket 8's for raises, as it gets much worse if you have 3 opponents with overs. With 8's I feel pretty comfortable that only 2 players will have overs, and others with be playing their ace/rag unsuited, k rag suited. In this situation I'm pretty much at even odds, so I don't lose any equity.
I think your approach works as well, and can have a lower variance. Innevitably I will pay the chasers more often when I do hit my set, as I've artficially built a pot for them to chase. So, build a nice pot for those that want the odds and those that want the big pots.
Cheers
Magi
I often can't decide what to do with those middle pairs with position against limpers as well. I figure either limping or raising you probably end up with close to same pot size, just a different number of opponents. With position I would usually try to be the aggressor and raise, but I can also see the argument of why you'd want to invest double for the same pot size... The problem with limping is that if you get a decent flop of an overpair (say 6-3-2) you may have invited hands like 3-2 or 5-4 in in the blinds, so both high and ragged flops may kill you. As well having limped, no-one gives any respect when you bet that flop, and the limpers will either call with the 2 overs, or assume you're bluffing and raise, putting you into a somewhat awkward position (especially if the turn is an over). I don't think playing either way is horrible, but these hands certainly require good decisions post-flop...