button spot in an 18 man

Richard~

this seems absolutely standard to me, yet lately I've busted A LOT of tournaments this way lately. Also as a followup question, if I call this hand and others like it, how wide do you think I can open and still be tough enough to defend myself vs light 3bets?

PokerStars Hand #76540281883: Tournament #526030579, $6.37+$0.63 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2012/03/02 23:01:05 CET [2012/03/02 17:01:05 ET]
Table '526030579 2' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Oyzo44 (2000 in chips)
Seat 4: Lordayn (1017 in chips)
Seat 5: IRichardI (1626 in chips)
Seat 7: dondada85 (4185 in chips)
Seat 8: kevcox (4672 in chips)
dondada85: posts small blind 50
kevcox: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IRichardI [Kh Qh]
Oyzo44: folds
Lordayn: folds
IRichardI: raises 125 to 225
dondada85: folds
kevcox: raises 475 to 700
IRichardI: raises 926 to 1626 and is all-in
kevcox: calls 926
*** FLOP *** [8c Td Ts]
*** TURN *** [8c Td Ts] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [8c Td Ts 5c] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
kevcox: shows [:ad :kd] (a pair of Tens)
IRichardI: shows [:kh :qh] (a pair of Tens - lower kicker)
kevcox collected 3302 from pot
IRichardI finished the tournament in 11th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3302 | Rake 0
Board [8c Td Ts 5c 9s]
Seat 1: Oyzo44 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Lordayn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: IRichardI (button) showed [Kh Qh] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 7: dondada85 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: kevcox (big blind) showed [Ad Kd] and won (3302) with a pair of Tens

Unknown

So not down with this call....hes a breakeven player!?

I don't think anyone at this level is adjusting and 3betting you light..and if they are you absolutely need a read. And i think antes should be in play.

I'm guessing you feel his raise size is trying to 'look' strong?

In order to 3bet light a player has to have an understanding of when and why. I got 3bet light once by one of the top regs (so people say he is), and he had 35o.....cleary doesn't get it (and i have more to that read). If the top regs in smaller stakes don't get it then it almost doesn't exist....and the top regs multi-table to much anyways.

I'm min raising here pre. I think you can open wide as you want here and never call light, and calling light is just not a thought ???


Edit: maybe its more of an 18 man thing, but a spot like this im not calling light ever

Richard~

that's the thing, I don't consider this light or a hero call at all. I consider K5s light and a hero call

Unknown

I think this is just std, and i dont think its calling light either

Unknown

Richard~ wrote: »

that's the thing, I don't consider this light or a hero call at all. I consider K5s light and a hero call

ok well I guess we are talking in the air unless you give his perceived 3bet jamming range

Unknown

pot = 50 + 100 + 225 + 1526 = 1901

1401 to call 1901 = 1.35 = 42%

is the equity we need to breakeven?


edit: but my initial thought is the raise size screams middling monster like aq ak 99 -QQ ish....wish you didn't post results tho but i thought thats obvious but maybe my read is off that way.

Vekked

if he shoved it's obv an easy call, but when he does this it's kinda gayyy... in game it's really hard to fold cuz it's like KQs otb with under 20 bigs, but I think ideally you should fold in these spots. A similar situation that I run into a lot is like I have TT in the blinds and someone raises Hijack with 23BB, and I 3-bet, and they 4-bet to like 8-9BB instead of shoving... in game it's super hard to fold because you plan on 3B/calling, but I think when people do retarded shit like this they're usually just blaaaaded.

Unknown

Vekked wrote: »

if he shoved it's obv an easy call, but when he does this it's kinda gayyy...

what range do we want to call this vs? i have a leak here then. or is it the games i play? how light to we expect or need villain to be?

Vekked

I expect villain to show up with all sorts of retarded stuff BB vs. btn. I'd fully expect at least 22+,A5s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A9o+,KJo+,QJo. Not to mention the times people show up with A2o, K4s, 74s, K9o, etc etc. People love to reship the button.

Unknown

Vekked wrote: »

I expect villain to show up with all sorts of retarded stuff BB vs. btn. I'd fully expect at least 22+,A5s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A9o+,KJo+,QJo. Not to mention the times people show up with A2o, K4s, 74s, K9o, etc etc. People love to reship the button.

ok thats not whats happening in my games at all...IS IT???



but i see kqs is generally call now.

But Rich I hope when you say 'these' spots you mean 3bet spots and not spots when villain 3bets the size he does here....because when he does that I think you have to tighten up, maybe kqs is still a call whatev V says obv

but villain is a breakeven player even slightly winning so to me thats generally because hes too tight in spots like this..fishy players i expect to be looser and better regs but breakeven regs 3bet tight imo


i gotta re look at these spots though

philliivey

Thanks to Darb and vekked for the above, I had a similar situation in a game I just played with KQ suited, I thought of the above posts and won the hand and went on to finish 2nd place.:)

So keep up the good strategy talk!