GBH Shift Mgr, question?
I've got to ask why the tables are 11 handed? All the tables in vegas are 10 handed, and just about everywhere I've been on the planet (ok it's a real small sample I have, but I just love saying planet instead of limited places in Canada and US, and major online casinos), they are 10 handed.
I suppose on a time charge it contributes a little more to the rake, but I can't see that it would make that much of a difference.
So, why 11 handed?
Personally, I really dislike 11 handed. For me it throws my game, and as some others have pointed out, it slows down the action -- which is a real drag in tournaments. Yes, I know even the WSOP went to 11 handed when the fire marshall shut down one of the rooms last year. But that was an exception, not the norm.
Cheers
Magi
I suppose on a time charge it contributes a little more to the rake, but I can't see that it would make that much of a difference.
So, why 11 handed?
Personally, I really dislike 11 handed. For me it throws my game, and as some others have pointed out, it slows down the action -- which is a real drag in tournaments. Yes, I know even the WSOP went to 11 handed when the fire marshall shut down one of the rooms last year. But that was an exception, not the norm.
Cheers
Magi
Comments
, but i agree in a tournament format something like 9 or 10 is a better approach.
In any game the more skilled player will have a greater edge against a smaller # of players. That is why win rates at shorthanded games are so much higher than at full tables.
Cheers,
Lee
Cheers,
Lee
I think it's awesome that you're here on this forum posting and thanks for your response.
Interesting. So, say an average of 100 bucks an hour at about 60% of the hours in a day, is about $1,500 a day extra, so I can see this is good for the casino. I didn't think there were so many tables on a time charge.
But, in a raked game the house loses as the lower number of hands per hour means less rake. So, what may look appealing from a time charge perhaps only covers the lose from the raked pots. I'm thinking 10% less rake in the raked pots, as there would be 10% fewer hands per hour. So, I'm think as a net, you're only looking at an extra $500 bucks a day -- but hey that's cool!
From strictly a money view, I don't think putting more money in the game would benefit the players. It adds up to fewer hands per hour, so for the player it increases the rake, and takes more money off the table. I really notice a huge difference in games when more money stays on the table.
But, since the Herron is 2 hours away, it's not something I would change for me. But I think it would be a good thing for players.
Cheers
Magi
Cool, it's so refreshing to hear someone acting on the customer's suggestions and doing some research. When you say a larger field, do you mean 11 players? I'm not so sure that the pros mean 11 players. From a professional perspective, when you have an edge the more hands per hour you play, the more effective your edge and the smaller your standard deviation. And, you have to work less hours. Thats why I think the higher stake players want a smaller field. They know they have an edge and want to get lots of hands in.
I'm looking forward to meeting you at the March tourney. GBH has a great person on their team.
Cheers
Magi
We went 11 handed in our Tournaments strictly to get 8 more players into each event thus increasing the Prize Pool (again we are restricted to 8 tables and cannot add tables for Tournaments) as well as allowing 8 more to play ... as it is we sell out each event faster and faster .
Chugs ... it would surprise you to see how much more money that extra player brings into the game over the hours the game is going ... and another point to remember most players do not take a scientific approach to the game, they want a full field (you should hear the complaints as soon as a game has a seat open and it is not filled immediately).
Anyway ...I'm off to work in a few minutes
Cheers,
Lee
Not even worth going there ....
Cheers,
Lee
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One guess who's opening or has opened their own facility. I got my peeves with some of the casino rooms, but come one ... they run a good room and have good games.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I'll go there. Its a pretty ignorant thing to say. I've been to poker rooms that have 11 seated tables that were run pretty damn good.
Red
Just stating my opinion of the Ontario legal rooms in comparison to underground games in Toronto and the legal games in CA, WA, NV, AZ, LA, CN and NY states. It's not only the 11 handed factor that I'm referring to, these places are just not well-run rooms.
Compare player services, dealer competancy, the competancy of the floor managers wrt rulings over their dealers, food service, tournament availability, tournament structures, game selection, wait lists, table #s, etc, etc. to even the "minor" rooms in other areas and you'll see what I mean.
Quite frankly, once you've been to the Bellagio or Mirage, they set the gold standard on poker rooms, for all the reasons GTA mentioned. But, I suspect our wonderful government is at the root of the problem.
Cheers
Magi
rant mode off
Red
Hi sinc,
The rule states you can't use any electronic device on a Casino floor, now a device with headphones raises alarms about potential cheat at play and there you have the reason sinc. The thing with rules sinc, good or bad, smart or stupid as long as they are applied consistently, the better players (regardless of the game or sport) will adapt and the others will complain ... no offense intended sinc just a general statement.
Cheers,
Lee
Admittedly a bit overstated, but you get the idea...
Sadly GTA, you missed my point. The rule (AGCO's rule) is firm about no electronic devices not even a cell phone. Even going beyond cheat at play, how about not hearing a player at the other end of the table raising ... and so on. The point is not being right or wrong, customer or Casino, but rather playing the game within any given set of rules and devoting energy and thought to winning a hand. That was all I meant, if it did not come across that way I do apologise.
Cheers,
Lee
I'm going out on limb here that the AGCO is the A(?)GamingCommisionofOntario. I think this was my point that our wonderful goverment prevents Casinos from using their own judgement. So a Casino can't really accomodate players, because big brother tells them what to do AND how much they can make. Blame our paternalistic government, not Lee, nor the Casino. If the government didn't think they knew better, the Casinos would cater more to the players. We'd see complimentary drinks, more tables, more casinos, more competition and other stuff. From Lee's posts, I have the utmost confidence his room would be the best room in Ontario, if the government wasn't intervening.
Cheers
Magi
In terms of listening to customer demands, here is mine: Please do not change the rule banning electronic devices. :cool:
I'm not saying that the Ontario casinos do everything perfectly in terms of their poker rooms, and I have some beefs of my own. (Using Kem cards and having way more dealers/tables would be awesome for example.) But to generalize the "no electronic devices" rule as a "lack of customer service" is miles over the top.
ScottyZ
Red
Interestingly, it has been documented that certain types of slots players wear diapers while playing so they don't run the risk of losing their machine when it is about to pay off. I suppose at the tables, they'll hold your spot for a bit so you can make a trip to the washroom. Unless you reeeally wanted to piss on the floor to avoid missing that one hand with pocket aces. I suppose the grannies would be wearing Depends anyway...
The potential for more limpers, pot odds for drawing to more hands ... it just makes a more live game. I think that a shorter game has less of that, i understand the added agression of being short handed sometimes compensates but it depends.
11 handed for players who like playin drawing hands etc... likely encourages a table texture that has many more players to the flop.
So while i still think the players and the table texture are more important than 9 or 10 or 11 handed, being 11 handed creates the type of table texture i prefer.
Thats cool, we all like what we like, and as Scotty points out, most often the Casinos don't hear about the things players like. I was mostly interested in the reason why it was 11 handed, when most of the world has 10 handed. While it does pull in more money on a time charge, I really believe it's a carry over from the Charity casinos when they didn't have enough tables. I really wish we could have a freer market in Ontario, where there could be competition for the Casino. But, thank goodness for the Internet -- at least for me.
Cheers
Magi
This is sort of correct. Given that each decision you make (raise/call/fold) has an EV, in a shorthanded game you make more decisions, meaning your EV is higher than in a game where you make very few decisions; i.e. your opponents have less chance to make mistakes.
However, shorthanded games are BRUTAL in terms of variance.
stp
I was very surprised to have read Red's post. Niagara has always been overly strict on the no electronics rule to the point they ask you to fully leave the gaming floor to use a cell phone. Allowing pictures on a floor is also strange, the liability reprecussions to the Casino are astronomical far more than any revenue a high roller could possibily leave. Brantford has always been to the letter on the no electronics rule and as you say they still are.
You are 100% right, as long as the rules are applied consisently most players can live with them.
For anyone planning to play in the April Poker Challenge Tournament at the Great Blue Heron, there are less than 10 spots left, March has been sold out for weeks.