Right or wrong play?

kwsteve

PokerStars - $2+$0.20|200/400 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP+1: 13,054.00
CO: 8,972.00
BTN: 11,380.00
SB: 11,270.00
BB: 30,590.00
UTG: 22,658.00
Hero (UTG+1): 10,940.00
MP: 6,346.00

MP+1 posts ante 50.00, CO posts ante 50.00, BTN posts ante 50.00, SB posts ante 50.00, BB posts ante 50.00, UTG posts ante 50.00, Hero posts ante 50.00, MP posts ante 50.00, SB posts SB 200.00, BB posts BB 400.00

Pre Flop: (1000.00) Hero has 8:club: 8

UTG raises to 1,600.00, Hero raises to 10,890.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 9,290.00

Flop: (22780.00, 2 players) T 7:spade: Q:club:

Turn: (22780.00, 2 players) 6:diamond:

River: (22780.00, 2 players) K:spade:

UTG shows A:diamond: J:diamond: (Straight, Ace High) (Pre 47%, Flop 39%, Turn 23%)
Hero shows 8:club: 8 (One Pair, Eights) (Pre 53%, Flop 61%, Turn 77%)
UTG wins 22,780.00

I know I got unlucky in this case. But, this is how I usually lose tournaments. Should I slow down in this position? Maybe just call the raise and then shut her down if I don't hit?

Unknown

with your hand you should be thinking set it, or forget it, even though you arent quite getting the right price

zipping in 25~ beibers with 8's is close

with his UTG raise, the best you are ever doing is flipping, id probs fold pre and find a better spot

westside8

Probs just fold because it's UTG raising 4x. You're most likely flipping (or worse dominated) and getting called in this spot in a $2 BI tourrney.

In the future though, don't show results for more objective opinions, so my post would look something like this.

kwsteve wrote: »

PokerStars - $2+$0.20|200/400 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP+1: 13,054.00
CO: 8,972.00
BTN: 11,380.00
SB: 11,270.00
BB: 30,590.00
UTG: 22,658.00
Hero (UTG+1): 10,940.00
MP: 6,346.00

MP+1 posts ante 50.00, CO posts ante 50.00, BTN posts ante 50.00, SB posts ante 50.00, BB posts ante 50.00, UTG posts ante 50.00, Hero posts ante 50.00, MP posts ante 50.00, SB posts SB 200.00, BB posts BB 400.00

Pre Flop: (1000.00) Hero has 8:club: 8

UTG raises to 1,600.00, Hero raises to 10,890.00 and is all-in,

I know I got unlucky in this case. But, this is how I usually lose tournaments. Should I slow down in this position? Maybe just call the raise and then shut her down if I don't hit?

betrthanphil

fold pre... almost never getting folds, there are still a lot of people to act behind. Mid pairs vs 4x openers suck lol there will be a better spot i promise you

Vekked

probably wouldn't start jamming 88 vs. EP raises until you're like 15BB deep or they're reeeeallly loose UTG (15%+). I think TT would be my cut-off for jamming, but the 4x is kind of gross. You really have to have an idea of whether 4x is their normal raise size or not.

And yea with 25BB usually just fold pre if you're not shallow enough to jam mid-pairs. TT I rarely fold pre to a single raise but 88 it's a fairly easy fold a lot of times. 99 gets tricky.

kwsteve

Alright, thanks for the replies everyone.

Meistro

No reads? You not only have to consider UTG but also the other 7 guys who are still to talk. You should get OUT of the habit of calling raises (full stop) in no limit, especially if you have aspirations of playing in tough games.

Flatting can invite other players into the pot. This is a mixed blessing. Personally I am not sure if 88 plays better multiway or not, it is a dual faceted hand in some respects. If anyone has you beat flatting is probably superior to raising but then folding would be best. UTG's raise sizing is bizarre and should give us pause. It's tough to set mine when you have such shallow stacks but you could also choose to play on 'good' flops.

If you do choose to three bet I guess since your opponent made it so large it makes sense to shove, as you will be committed even on bad flops anyway if you three bet 2.5 x or so.

All in all I think this play, jamming, is probably borderline but slightly -EV. TT would definitely be a jam.

kwsteve

Thanks for weighing in, Meistro.

Richard~

not quite getting the odds to setmine? we have less than half of what I'd need to call merely for set value

Unknown

Richard~ wrote: »

not quite getting the odds to setmine? we have less than half of what I'd need to call merely for set value

we would have to have about 16k to set mine here richard, also dont forget our position.

Set mining is not an option here.

Richard~

try 30k imo

Vekked

yea not flatting 88 here with less than 30k v often

DennisG

Richard~ wrote: »

try 30k imo

Vekked wrote: »

yea not flatting 88 here with less than 30k v often

have our setmining odds skyrocketed that much these days? 75bb? I can appreciate we don't have enough with 10k...but 30k?

I am folding pre here...this used to be a huge leak of mine..jamming all these little mid pairs and rarely being good.

Richard~

it's not about BB's, think about it for a second, you'll see it

DennisG

Richard~ wrote: »

it's not about BB's, think about it for a second, you'll see it

Ok fair enough, there are a pile behind us including the shove stacks...

eeetee2011

i generally want at least 30bbs to set mine here so i would fold

Vekked

DennisG wrote: »

Ok fair enough, there are a pile behind us including the shove stacks...

That's not it (well that's significant for sure given positions, but not the most significant thing here, because even if no one was shoving light I'd still want 30k probs). Look at how big the guy raised, he 4x'd it. Obviously we need way more stack odds to call a 4x than a 2x raise. If he min-raised we'd need have as many chips to call. It's all about our stack relative to the size of his raise. So yea, to setmine vs. a 4x raise we need at least 75BB, maybe more still given positions.