180 man turbo 8'

Unknown

this is the hand i think btp saw...

at first review, i thought i only saw one shover in the middle...and since both are regs whoever i saw woulda been on a wide range....

but i could see me calling this a very marginal call

its not std. but i wonder if its not crazy...the premise is the first guy is really wide because hes marked as a really good reg hes gonna be like 80%...2nd guy is a reg too albeit not as wide but prob a good 50-70%

The other things are i have a hand thats prob not dominated often and if i chip up here i can put intense pressure on the money bubble coming up

500/1,000 Blinds, 100 Ante, 8 Players

CO: 3,305
BTN: 9,768
SB: 8,063
JodaB. (BB): 7,821
UTG: 1,740
UTG+1: 3,355
MP1: 14,861
MP2: 5,255

Pre-Flop: (2,300) 9 7 dealt to JodaB. (BB)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to 3,255 and is All-In, 2 folds, CO calls 3,205 and is All-In, 2 folds, JodaB. calls 2,255

Flop: (11,015) 5 K Q (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: (11,015) Q (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: (11,015) A (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 11,015 Pot
CO showed 7 7 and LOST (-3,205 NET)
JodaB. showed 9 7 and LOST (-2,255 NET)
UTG+1 showed K A and WON 11,015 (+7,760 NET)

jdAA88

Ya I have lotsa trouble with deciding what to do here with such small stacks. I'm pretty sure I'm calling here as well for the reasons you mentioned as well as the odds we're getting.
How close are we to the bubble though?

Unknown

jdAA88 wrote: »

How close are we to the bubble though?

This is a matter of a opinin ha

i usually check the players left and the blinds time ...not sure if i did here or not but we are certainly close prob like 25 or so....

so i don't think icm really applies, plus knowing the dynamics of these and that the bubble is where i crush...i think if i can chip up here most of the time ill hit the ft with a good 30k without really showing down much

basically im stretching the ev calc to own the bubble ....but this could be too far for sure

Richard~

I don't ever fold to a 3-4 BB shove here, I don't know why I don't, I just don't. No matter how many callers there are

DrTyore

EZ fold

You want to be shoving, not calling or over shoving.

Mark

Unknown

DrTyore wrote: »

EZ fold

You want to be shoving, not calling or over shoving.

Mark

when tho...if because of the money bubble ok...but in general i don't value shoving over calling in earlier stages esp with antes still,

here i might value shoving because its 3way but then again i value a triple up more than a double up with the same odds

DrTyore

Straight up Harrington

You want to be the first one shoving, and it looks like you should have been doing that the previous hand. This guy's already pushed, and you don't want to be calling a lot of your stack, let alone pushing to a caller already. It's not enough to deter him from calling, and you don't have a hand to go to war with.

Mark

Unknown

DrTyore wrote: »

, and it looks like you should have been doing that the previous hand.

the rest of your argument is valid but about me shoulda been shoving i don't think anyone would believe how wide i shove

Richard~

we're dealing with 2 all in players, and you're kinda misreading harrington

DataMn

Even without the "crushing the bubble" added value, I don't think that it is that close. You are risking 2,255 chips to potentially win 8,760 chips. So you only need to win 20.4% of the time to come out even. (Yes - I am aware that you can't evaluate straight up, but with this many people left it is pretty close choice between straight up calculation and ICM).

Even if you tighten up the hand ranges of the opps to 50% and 40% you are around 28% to win. You could even tighten them up to a range of 10% and 10% and you still have the right odds to call (25% in this case).

I am sure you know this, but for others - even though you are doing well compared to the competition at your table, folding here leaves you with only about 60% of an average stack, and you are also getting close to 5BB where it is hard to get any fold equity (for example, see BTP's comment about not folding earlier). Also, the table you were at probably had the least number of chips. Folding would leave you with a good chance of going out on the bubble while calling risks not a lot for a chance to have 1.25x the average stack and knock another player out, which this close to the bubble is not insignificant.

djgolfcan

In this spot, I like calling as well. If we win, we are in great position going into the final two tables, plus we can knock out two players. If we lose, the blinds are high enough that stealing them twice, and we have more chips than we started with.