How could I have played this??

giddersgidders
in Online Poker
One of the first hands in the tournament, I don't have a read on hardly anyone 'cept the guy I busted out in Seat 1.

Game #711879367 (Level I, Game #5) - 5/10 No Limit Texas Hold'em -
2005/02/04-23:03:13.6 (CST)
Table "Candi" ($20 tournament) -- Seat 6 is the button
Seat 2: buffalovan (1,235.00 in chips)
Seat 3: HotSeat00 (990.00 in chips)
Seat 4: OPTIMUS PRM (970.00 in chips)
Seat 5: JOVAL (975.00 in chips)
Seat 6: LEGKICKER (1,165.00 in chips)
Seat 7: dwheels (990.00 in chips)
Seat 8: gidders (1,765.00 in chips)
Seat 9: Skrewed (920.00 in chips)
Seat 10: Need Therapy (990.00 in chips)
dwheels : Post Small Blind (5)
gidders : Post Big Blind (10)
Dealing...
Dealt to gidders [ Jc ]
Dealt to gidders [ Jh ]
Skrewed : Fold
Need Therapy: Fold
buffalovan: Fold
HotSeat00: Raise (60)
OPTIMUS PRM: Call (60)
JOVAL : Call (60)
LEGKICKER: Call (60)
dwheels : Fold
gidders : Call (50)
*** FLOP *** : [ Jd 8d Tc ]
gidders : Check
HotSeat00: Bet (70)
OPTIMUS PRM: Call (70)
JOVAL : Fold
LEGKICKER: Call (70)
gidders : Call (70)
*** TURN *** : [ Jd 8d Tc ] [ 9d ]
gidders : Check
HotSeat00: Check
OPTIMUS PRM: Bet (10)
LEGKICKER: Raise (1,035)
gidders : ****
HotSeat00: Fold
OPTIMUS PRM: Call All-in (830)
*** RIVER *** : [ Jd 8d Tc 9d ] [ 8s ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 2,265 | Board: [ Jd 8d Tc 9d 8s ]
buffalovan didn't bet (folded)
HotSeat00 lost 130 (folded)
OPTIMUS PRM bet 970, collected 2,265, net +1,295 (showed hand) [ 9h 9c ] (a
full house, nines full of eights)
JOVAL lost 60 (folded)
LEGKICKER bet 1,165, collected 195, net -970 (showed hand) [ Kc Ks ] (two
pair, kings and eights)
dwheels lost 5 (folded)
gidders lost 130 (folded) [ Jc Jh ] (a full house, jacks full of eights)
Skrewed didn't bet (folded)
Need Therapy didn't bet (folded)


I folded and would have won xx amount of chips, how could I played this differently? I will post my thoughts on this hand later :)

Comments

  • sweetjimmisweetjimmi
    Your first big no-no here is just calling the raise preflop. How will you know where your at? I think a reraise is in order for two reasons; first to try and limit the field and second to try and figure out where you are in the hand. That being said to accomplish these results you will need a substantial reraise to get you there. I would make it 360 (a raise of 300 or basically the pot) to go. This should eliminate everyone except KK who may push on you. If reraised all-in preflop I think you can let your hand go pretty easily. Now if someone (or someones!) only calls your raise proceed with caution.

    Flop: If you reraised preflop as I said this is a great flop as if it would be very questionable for 79 or Q9 to call two raises preflop therefore giving you what I would assume is the best hand. I would also think that any players left at this point have 1010-AA or a big Ax most likely AK. Being first to act I would make a pot sized bet automatically pushing to a reraise. Now if your just called again proceed with caution as some the hands that will call have draws against you.

    Now with the way you played it you are not really sure your top set is the best hand. You are first to act so I would fire out a pot sized raise. If your reraised you will be put to a tough decision. I would still have a hard time putting anyone on a straight (since there was a raise preflop) and would probably jam against a reraise.

    On the turn you have gotten yourself into a world of trouble because you have not been aggressive at all to this point. I don't think I would still have any decisions as I would probably be all-in at this point but in your situation I think you made the right play. The only other thing you could have done is a semi-bluff jam leaving the decision to the others to make. Check folding here isn't terrible either but you should not have gotten to this point.

    River: With the hands that are out there, there is no way someone hasn't pushed at this point.

    Remember aggressiveness pays! I can not say this enough but you really needed to step on the gas with this hand. You may have lost a few more bucks if KK moves on you preflop but in all likely hood you will get to the flop heads-up (maybe even 3 way) where you can assume that you have the best hand.

    Be Agressive Agressive Agressive!!!
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Holy pacivity batman.. When you play JJ preflop, what are you looking for postflop if you won't bet when you flop a set? If you really can't bring yourself to bet it, then don't play it.

    It's a draw heavy board. Make the draws pay to beat you.
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Flop: If you reraised preflop as I said this is a great flop as if it would be very questionable for 79 or Q9 to call two raises preflop

    The pot was already raised preflop so it's already questionable that someone would be playing those two hands.
    If your reraised you will be put to a tough decision.

    I know people like using the term 'tough decision' when talking about NL, but it's really not in this situation. At worst you'd be pushing as a very slight underdog and at best you've got someone completely dominated.
  • sweetjimmisweetjimmi
    I know people like using the term 'tough decision' when talking about NL, but it's really not in this situation. At worst you'd be pushing as a very slight underdog and at best you've got someone completely dominated.

    Yes, but you must also remember this a tourney where being a slight dog could cost you elimination. In a ring game it is a very easy call as long term results will be in your favour. In a tourney your life is always at risk and that needs be taken into consideration. If you think your a dog and often even when your even money you will not always make the call.
  • derksenderksen
    Ok, before I read the other replys, here is my $0.02.

    Call preflop, and called when you hit the set. 2 huge errors.

    1st off, if anybody has an overcard and hits a pair on the flop, you're SOL (this is preflop of course). Raise to push out the A-rag and KQ crap.

    Preflop call when you hit the set.... there are 2 diamonds showing - therefore, you have to raise out the chasers!

    Nothing else to say. Ok... one more thing. Don't get greedy with a set and draw people in. Be afraid of the draws and play aggresive to get rid of them!!

    GL next time.
  • giddersgidders
    Okay. Let me share with you my thinking. Let me first start off by letting you guys know that I am NOT a passive player by any means, I understand that aggressiveness pays off in the long run and that slowplaying big hands is not a good thing in most scenario's. I would consider myself to be a hyper-aggressive player when it comes to crunch time.

    Pre-flop.
    I am pretty good at being able to read hand strength, and I REALLY felt here that I was up against an overpair, and I don't believe I have to play everyhand to a science. Actually, truth be told I put the KK on QQ-AA so I was pumped to see my read was right.

    My thinking was to lead a pot sized bet if the board didn't have a Q K or A to it, and see how hard I got played back at. Then I could judge whether my jacks were good there or not. I HONESTLY believed that had I reraised PF in the SB i wouldda been pushed all in and at that point in the tournament I didn't want to face a race situation or even worse, up against a hand like KK.

    Flop[/B]
    When the flop came down J hi with straight and flush draws, I considered leading with my set and having what I figured was an overpair come over the top and push eachother all in on the flop. This is probably what I should have done, you're right.

    Turn
    When I only check called the the flop, my intention was to check raise all-in on the turn if the turn was a non scary card ie) no straight completer. A diamond, I was prepared to call a big bet but the 9d was the scariest card of all IMO. I didn't want to "risk" 1000 chips or so this early on in the game knowing that I needed to board to pair (10 outs tops).

    Analysis
    I played this hand wrong, I admit. I played it way too soft pre-flop and on the flop but I just wanted to make sure that I did make the correct fold on the turn from the way I played it PF and flop. Even though I would have a positive result I still think I made a good fold on the turn.

    Anyways, I ended up winning the tournament fairly easily and followed it up with 3 more nice wins in a row :). Thanks for the imputs guys, feel free to criticize my terrible play with top set I know I mucked it up :P

    gidders - ParadisePoker I'm always chirpin' at the tables feel free to come say hello
  • GordGord
    I think your preflop play was ok if you were ready to check/fold on a missed flop...
    However on the flop i definately think you need to play it a lot stronger due to the number of draws out there. I would either check raise the flop or bet out a very strong amount. Given the way you played it, the check/fold on the turn is a good play i think.

    I was just wondering how you put the guy with k/k on qq to aa... he just called a standard raise...
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    sweetjimmi wrote:
    Yes, but you must also remember this a tourney where being a slight dog could cost you elimination. In a ring game it is a very easy call as long term results will be in your favour. In a tourney your life is always at risk and that needs be taken into consideration. If you think your a dog and often even when your even money you will not always make the call.

    Oh my... You aren't willing to put all your chips in the middle with a flopped set?

    While there is always a risk of busting out in a tournament, this is one helluva opportunity to throw away against someone with two pair or a flush draw or even as litle as Top Pair.

    Are you even considering the full house redraw?
  • sweetjimmisweetjimmi
    Oh my... You aren't willing to put all your chips in the middle with a flopped set?

    Do not read between the lines. I said consider your options. Sets are beatable and you do not always need to put all (or most of) your chips in when you are only a slight favourite.

    As I said orginally in this situation I would have been more than happy to put my chips in on the flop and easily folded on the turn.
  • BigDaddyBigDaddy
    sweetjimmi wrote:
    Do not read between the lines. I said consider your options. Sets are beatable and you do not always need to put all (or most of) your chips in when you are only a slight favourite.

    As I said orginally in this situation I would have been more than happy to put my chips in on the flop and easily folded on the turn.

    I agree in principle here, but the X-factor is that gidders was also a heavy chip leader at the table. Knowing that I have everyone covered, I wouldn't hesitate to put a 4BB or pot bet after the flop and eliminate the weak draws, and hope to keep the K-K or A-A in the game. If I get a bad turn or river, I can still fold, and am still sitting with a good stack to work with.
  • sweetjimmisweetjimmi
    agree in principle here, but the X-factor is that gidders was also a heavy chip leader at the table. Knowing that I have everyone covered, I wouldn't hesitate to put a 4BB

    There is no question that the major flaw is not betting the flop. Gidders checked the flop. In this hand I do not think his chip stack matters. There is almost no reason on the flop not to get the money in the middle.
  • TigerscottTigerscott
    Skrewed : Fold
    Need Therapy: Fold
    buffalovan: Fold
    HotSeat00: Raise (60)
    OPTIMUS PRM: Call (60) <
    99
    JOVAL : Call (60)
    LEGKICKER: Call (60) <
    KK
    dwheels : Fold
    gidders : Call (50) <
    JJ
    *** FLOP *** : [ Jd 8d Tc ]

    5/10 blinds and 3 Large PP's flat call a MP bet???

    This is how NOT to play Poker!!!!!!!!!
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