Good fold/Bad fold??

RWPKRPLR

PokerStars Game #71679380045: Tournament #479488615, $1.32+$0.18 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2011/12/05 19:23:01 ET
Table '479488615 1' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: xxxtrini (1300 in chips)
Seat 3: elpillo31186 (2914 in chips)
Seat 4: jullllli (2565 in chips)
Seat 6: ryan1111 (2221 in chips)
xxxtrini: posts small blind 25
elpillo31186: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [Qs Qc]
jullllli: folds
ryan1111: raises 50 to 100
xxxtrini: folds
elpillo31186: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [5c 4d Qd]
elpillo31186: checks
ryan1111: checks
*** TURN *** [5c 4d Qd] [7c]
elpillo31186: checks
ryan1111: bets 150
elpillo31186: calls 150
*** RIVER *** [5c 4d Qd 7c] [6d]
elpillo31186: bets 200
ryan1111 said, "feels so right"
ryan1111: folds [Qs Qc]
Uncalled bet (200) returned to elpillo31186
elpillo31186 collected 525 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 525 | Rake 0
Board [5c 4d Qd 7c 6d]
Seat 1: xxxtrini (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: elpillo31186 (big blind) collected (525)
Seat 4: jullllli folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ryan1111 (button) folded on the River

DrTyore

There is so much here that I don't agree with.

A: Raise more preflop, you're 4 handed and UTG, min raising is NOT a good idea - I don't care what the WSOP kids were doing this year.

B: If you're going to play this small ball BS, why wouldn't you put a bet out on that flop? Top set is great, but there's a straight AND flush draw developing there. Coupled with the fact that you min raised and most BB's will call with ANYTHING there, it's a mistake to check.

C: Hand plays differently otherwise.

Mark

jdAA88

^^what he said

also, LOL @ "feels so right" hahaha

edit: I still call cos its only 200 and our hand is grossly underrepped

Hobbes

Def agree with Mark here.

As played, FOLD the river. These guys are almost never leading out on the river with a hand you beat.

Unknown

I think we can lead this flop sometimes. I like to check back strong made hands sometimes to let the villain catch up a little but here on an obvious c-bet board villain can call with any piece, diamonds, pair, and float hands like AJ, AT, pretty easy. Sometimes we will check back here and turn an action killer like an A,K, or a diamond.

On the river hes betting 200 into 500 i think so we only have to be right 1 in (i don't know ha 2.5 times?). Villain could do this with two pair or sets I think but more often than not you are up against a straight or a flush

Also noting villain seems passive check calling all the way and suddenly bets river.

Unknown

DrTyore wrote: »

There is so much here that I don't agree with.

A: Raise more preflop, you're 4 handed and UTG, min raising is NOT a good idea - I don't care what the WSOP kids were doing this year.

B: If you're going to play this small ball BS, why wouldn't you put a bet out on that flop? Top set is great, but there's a straight AND flush draw developing there. Coupled with the fact that you min raised and most BB's will call with ANYTHING there, it's a mistake to check.

C: Hand plays differently otherwise.

Mark

ha i was just gonna finish my post with 'this would prob be a spot where mark would harp on me to bet flop, and i would agree here

DrTyore

darbday wrote: »

ha i was just gonna finish my post with 'this would prob be a spot where mark would harp on me to bet flop, and i would agree here

I almost started with "A: You pulled a darb and didn't raise enough PF"

Mark

Unknown

DrTyore wrote: »

I almost started with "A: You pulled a darb and didn't raise enough PF"

Mark

I would argue with hero raising to 110 pre ...will usually make postflop easier and help build a pot..

Also was going to ask is the hero always min raising his button or did we change the sizing because we have a strong hand?

RWPKRPLR

On the flop, I checked to see if I could get a bet out him on the turn.. he was folding to any bet i put out, prior to this hand.

Raises were consistently 2.5x before this hand

djgolfcan

I agree with the previous posters, and keep the prefop raise the same then, 2.5x BB - this was just a min raise.

Checking the flop is not good, this is a draw heavy board, and our hand can be beat by any of those draws hitting. C-bet 2/3 the pot, then bet pot on the turn to make the draw pay.

As played, I call the river and cover my eyes.

RWPKRPLR

Raises were consistently 2.5x before this hand

Unknown

RWPKRPLR wrote: »

On the flop, I checked to see if I could get a bet out him on the turn.. he was folding to any bet i put out, prior to this hand.

this makes me want to fold river.

RWPKRPLR wrote: »

Raises were consistently 2.5x

so the reason you raise bigger like 2.5 with all your other hands is to set up the times when you have qq and you can begin to build a pot without setting alarms off. So if you min your monsters only here you are missing value at the least

RWPKRPLR

Note: I Only played it this way because of the way the table was playing out. I guess I did make a mistake changing my bet size pre flop! and I missed a bet on the flop. Thanks for the insight.

SuperNed

If he had the straight or flush you made the right play. If he didn't you suck....and let him get there if he did. It happens sometimes when you are trying to keep the person in to extract more money. I mean, if the river had of been a 10 of spades or just about anything but what it was all would have been golden. People really need to stop overanalyzing poker hands...
.....then again, I suppose this is a poker message board...LOL.

masterplan

I think the biggest mistake there was your aggression level. A bigger raise preflop means you're able to make a more sizable bet on the flop and force him to pay to draw, which again leads to a larger bet on the turn, and chances are if he's on a draw he's folding there.

No matter what, I agree with the posters that said you make the call anyways. I mean, it's a good % of your chips, but you've already put so much out there, and for all you know he put you on a bluff based on your really passive bets, and decided to try to steal on the river.

trigs

at this level, i don't like to slowplay unless my opponent is known to be very aggressive (and even then he'll probably look to raise me anyway). bet the flop and a decent amount of the time villain will play back at you thinking you're just cbetting with anything.

and i rarely if ever raise min preflop. usually 2.5x at least.

Richard~

didn't read much further that jDAA88 cause I agree a bunch with that. Extremely underrepped hand, and I call

reibs

yeah about the raising pre thing, personally until antes kick in, Im always 2.5 - 2.75x. Once antes kick in its not usually over 2.5x. When I get up to like 400 800 blinds, thats when I start minraising. Just my personal preference at the micros. Not sure if its optimal.... And never deviate from your standard sizing due to your cards.

HammerDad

I cbet flop. What was your cbet %? Do you cbet frequently or is it more when you hit or as bluff?

I have a high cbet rate, so I obviously continue on the flop. Villain may decide to become bluffy and raise (especially if you cbet a lot).

IMO, spots like these are the reason why we cbet. Why wouldn't we want to build a pot when we hold the nuts on the flop?

Cbet flop, hope to get raised, call the raise and c/jam any turn, profit.

If villain folds to flop cbet, so be it. You don't always get value out of your monsters.

Edit - you mentioned that villain had been folding to you a lot prior. Why not continue to put pressure on him by betting the flop and hoping he makes a bad play out of frustration.

RWPKRPLR

HammerDad wrote: »

Edit - you mentioned that villain had been folding to you a lot prior. Why not continue to put pressure on him by betting the flop and hoping he makes a bad play out of frustration.

should of taken this route