Ruling

Gonzo

I battled long and hard at a table not to long ago (tourney, non-official) about this ruling. Any one know if this is official?

When you are called on the river it is the raiser (or initial bettor) who must show first? This I'm sure is the official rule.... right?

If so, in a casino is it true that if you call a bet after the river the bettor has the "right" to see your cards even if you mucked them?

and if that second ruling is true does that not defeat the purpose of a bluff?

I am under the impression and self governed rule to NEVER show your cards unless you have to !?!?!?!?!

What do you guys think (or know) about this.

ScottyZ

When you are called on the river it is the raiser (or initial bettor) who must show first? This I'm sure is the official rule.... right?

The common practice is that the player who made the *last* aggressive action (bet or raise) shows down the cards first.

Examples:

A bets
B calls
A shows first

A bets
B raises
A calls
B shows first

If so, in a casino is it true that if you call a bet after the river the bettor has the "right" to see your cards even if you mucked them?

In most casinos I have been in, any player at the table may ask to see any hands which are active at the showdown if there are two or more active hands. That is, if there is a "called hand".

Some examples:

On the river
A bets
B calls
A shows his cards and wins. B mucks his hand. Any player at the table may ask that B's cards be shown.

On the river
A bets
B raises
C folds
A folds
B wins the pot, and does not need to show his cards. No player may request to see A, B, or C's cards.

On the river
A checks
B checks
C checks
Checked around. Any player at the table may request to see any (or all) of these hands.

and if that second ruling is true does that not defeat the purpose of a bluff?

This does not defeat the purpose of bluffing, which is (generally) to win the pot. The consequence is only that if you bluff and are called, the players at your table have the right to see your cards. (In fact, the proper practice is for you to show your cards first anyway.) If your bluff is not called, however, you are not obligated to show your cards.

ScottyZ

Gonzo

Okay, well I think I owe someone an apology. from now on I'm pulling a phil helmuth and throwing my cards into the muck so they won't be sure which cards were in fact mine.

I understand the logistics and rationale of it just never thought it was the official stance.

Thanks Scotty,