Floating in action
This is kinda the preflop float and flop float play. River decision? Stacks are kinda akward to raise without shoving. This is the 500 dollar highrollertournament on betsson btw
OnGame - 300/600 NL - Holdem - 10 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: PokerTracker - Online Poker Software, Player Stats Tracking & HUD
UTG: 9,739.00
UTG+1: 25,244.00
MP: 28,057.00
MP+1: 25,938.00
MP+2: 37,980.00
Hero (LP): 33,418.00
CO: 33,628.00
BTN: 14,965.00
SB: 35,872.00
BB: 14,039.00
SB posts ante 60.00, BB posts ante 60.00, UTG posts ante 60.00, UTG+1 posts ante 60.00, MP posts ante 60.00, MP+1 posts ante 60.00, MP+2 posts ante 60.00, Hero posts ante 60.00, CO posts ante 60.00, BTN posts ante 60.00, SB posts SB 300.00, BB posts BB 600.00
Pre Flop: (1500.00) Hero has :ad :8h
fold, fold, fold, fold,
MP+2 raises to 1,300.00,
Hero calls 1,300.00,
fold, fold, fold,
BB calls 700.00
Flop: (4800.00, 3 players) :7h :kh :2d
BB checks,
MP+2 bets 2,550.00,
Hero calls 2,550.00,
fold
Turn: (9900.00, 2 players) :as
MP+2 checks,
Hero checks
River: (9900.00, 2 players) :8c
MP+2 bets 7,250.00,
OnGame - 300/600 NL - Holdem - 10 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: PokerTracker - Online Poker Software, Player Stats Tracking & HUD
UTG: 9,739.00
UTG+1: 25,244.00
MP: 28,057.00
MP+1: 25,938.00
MP+2: 37,980.00
Hero (LP): 33,418.00
CO: 33,628.00
BTN: 14,965.00
SB: 35,872.00
BB: 14,039.00
SB posts ante 60.00, BB posts ante 60.00, UTG posts ante 60.00, UTG+1 posts ante 60.00, MP posts ante 60.00, MP+1 posts ante 60.00, MP+2 posts ante 60.00, Hero posts ante 60.00, CO posts ante 60.00, BTN posts ante 60.00, SB posts SB 300.00, BB posts BB 600.00
Pre Flop: (1500.00) Hero has :ad :8h
fold, fold, fold, fold,
MP+2 raises to 1,300.00,
Hero calls 1,300.00,
fold, fold, fold,
BB calls 700.00
Flop: (4800.00, 3 players) :7h :kh :2d
BB checks,
MP+2 bets 2,550.00,
Hero calls 2,550.00,
fold
Turn: (9900.00, 2 players) :as
MP+2 checks,
Hero checks
River: (9900.00, 2 players) :8c
MP+2 bets 7,250.00,
Comments
isn't a hand like this the reason not to?
this is super specific circumstances. FLat pre with the intention of floating, make your hand on turn and check for potcontrol and improve on river. The general float pre float flop plan still makes sense imo, especially vs a somewhat loose competent player on such a good board
As for river, I insta push? It seems like he doesn't have much and trying to bet you off a draw, or a KQ type hand.... Although that would usually check down.........
I prob push though.
I'm inclined to think he has air but we cannot raise him in this spot, because you are never getting called by worse hands.
I never said I was aiming to get my ace with a snickers wrapper to showdown ^^' Not until I saw the turn anyway, kinda no point in bluffing at once that hits
Hes not calling because he thinks he has a good hand.
Thats the difference between levelling and spewing. I suspect we bet every non ace turn.
Preflop: Aight, let's do this, I think it'll look believable
Flop: Aight, let's do this, perfect flop for him to c-bet
Turn: k, he checked, he probably doesn't have air now as I'd expect him to doublebarrel that card a fair amount if he did
River: hmm, wierd. I think there are more ace type hands in his range now than sets, I kinda want to raise something. Hmm stacks ,I wish i was deeper and could raise more comfortably. Raisefold these stacks? not sure if like, shoving would be a legit sizing for a raise anyway here by me.
Anyway I ended up shoving, he tanked forever before calling with AK knocking me out. I believe the river decision is close, I think I like a flat better. I think the river is nearly never a bluff since he didn't doublebarrel the turn and I think he bets AK-A9 at least for value, as well as any set and maybe maybe a busted draw. Question is how many hands I can get him to call with if for example he belives I busted a draw.
In the end villain played it well, I think he felt that I might be trying to steal it on the turn and checked his top two for the purpose of keeping K type hands in and getting value from my bluffs. In hindsight I wish I would've treated my hand as a bluff all the way through instead of changing my plan on the river and going for thin value. After shoving I remember thinking to myself, please don't have ak, please don't have ak which just makes it more silly lol. Anyway, wp villain
Edit: one thing that actually works in the favor of my river shove that I just realised is that my river valueraise range is super narrow. I would almost always bet sets on the turn and villain may very well read a shove as polarized to close to what it is (which is pretty much A8, 88 and bluffs since I would still bet sets for value on the turn expecting to get called by a good K a fair amount of the time)
If you wish to play A8o in this spot I prefer 3betting - it costs the same as call,call,bet turn but I would argue you win the pot far more often, its lower variance bc the shorties cant take your spot and more profitable vs MP2 ... especially when he flats pf OOP with a stronger ace/pair then whiffs flop and c/f
On the flop, he is cbetting into 2 players making the pot 7k with a bb who has a perfect stack to pot ratio for a jam. I feel mp2 cbet is stronger than you're giving it credit for and the 'aight lets do this' attitude can get you into trouble. If Im flatting this flop, I would want something stronger than 66 or JhTx /stronger broadway to at least be able to backdoor heart/straight outs - Ax8h is just a junky hand and it can put us in junky spots, especially when we are not the agressor.
As played, wp with the turn check.
I disagree that villian played it well - he is letting hearts or trips draw for free AND limiting his monster to only 2 streets of value. In his spot I think making it 5500-6500 and jamming the river is the best play. I also disagree with you betting the turn, if we want to be results oriented we can probably agree his intention was to checkraise .. also a ton of his 'light' cbets are now aces with higher kickers. Pot control is the clear play and it can let him bluff us or check/call stuff he may have c/f on turn ... It also lets us lose the min when we are crushed, but instead we get the super interesting river improvement
Catching river bluffs with a call is something I prefer over almost turning it into a bluff by shoving. I dont think a shove has very much value and as we learned he doesnt fold ANY better hands. With your line, certain euro types could look up a small raise, thinking after checking turn you are trying to bluff a busted fd for the minimum. Thats still pretty ambitious and vs most I tend to just call, but it could be an interesting discussion if small raise > call > shove > fold OR call > small raise > shove > fold. What do you think?
I could obviously 3bet pre, but I wanted to mix it up, 3 betting isn't the only way to play, especially considering how poor many regs are postflop. By saying I wish I would've treated my hand like a bluff I didn't mean I wish I would've bet turn but rather that I would've called river. Raisefolding river is probably viable but I generally don't like raisefolding big hands on dry boards cause I have a major trustissue from playing regs on betsson lol.
I'm not sure it's intentional from people in this thread but I get the feeling a lot of people are going "sigh, A8 is a terrible hand, this is a perfect example of how you can get in trouble with it" which is just silly. Again, the small raise on river is probably an idea, but I kinda like a flat over a small raise in that spot, don't know if I'm the only one
I think squeezes happen in a $500 more than your acknowledging. And it could be quite bad. Making this flat without planning ahead is a large leak.
Hes not going to shove with no equity, but you're floating the flop with no equity putting yourself in a spot where I assume you fold to PF or flop jams... or calling and finding yourself dominated. Both are bad scenarios where you've put money into the pot on two streets without a clear and reliable plan to win the pot
If you must play A8o, I do obviously prefer 3b because it gives multiple ways to win the pot. Instead of calling yourself into a potentially tough spot, you can use aggression to force your opponents into one. If this reg is poor postflop, I can only assume that 3betting and taking the flop in position with the lead benefits you and hurts him. Think about when you 3b his opens when he holds hands like AT-AQ 88-JJ : many players will flat you OOP pf and check, sigh, fold when you cb this K high flop - and many other boards/textures!
I think you're right, calling river is > shoving. There is always that special kind of european player that might also have trustissues when you flat flop and check back turn that might look you up with < 2 pair , so knowledge of the specific opponent can really come in handy here
Some people might be, but others are engaging in discussions and hopefully learning from it. I think a couple other good examples of how you get in trouble with it are QJ2 flop with 3 of a suit that you dont have, or K8x flops when you call a flop bet and he fires turn.
My message is more A8o is a terrible hand TO FLAT PF, especially with two shovestacks behind.
With respect to your river decision, since you are saying $500 regs are poor postflop its up to you to evaluate their weaknesses and make the play that extracts the most value. After flatting A8o pf, maybe thats calling and maybe its raising, it depends on the specific opponent/betsizing, just dont fold after making running 2 pair
Hero calls 1,300.00,
I just went blind.
Also, don't argue with Scotty. Ever.
As for a part where I read scotty thinking villian played it bad, I disagree. Its a good read on his part where he puts hero on float or draw, and if hero has a K then drawing dead anyways and tough to get 2 more streets (turn and river) of value just off a K. He is checking hoping that a draw decides to take a stab and he can push the action after that with a nice check raise. It can be very very tilting for a player here if they do bet there draw cause now they are pissed that they bet themselves out of seeing the river. Villian played it to perfection imo. Hero really needs to flat river, not really even close to a decision imo.
apart from that I guess I wish had a better sense for betsizing and could read the river bet as easily as btp seems to have done lol