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Final four....

UnknownUnknown
in MTT Strategy
Villain is breakevenish....didn't see any play out of the ordinary...timing tell on the flop was a really fast bet....and its a little big...i sensed fear for sure...not sure if he has a vulnerable hand like a over pair or a weaker pair....or hand like kqo.....



Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 6,000/12,000 Blinds, 1,200 Ante, 4 Players


BB: 516,897
UTG: 603,256
JodaB. (BTN): 357,145
SB: 706,702

Pre-Flop: (22,800) Aheartnormal.gif Jdiamond.gif dealt to JodaB. (BTN)
UTG raises to 24,000, JodaB. calls 24,000, 2 folds

Flop: (70,800) Tclub.gif Jheartnormal.gif 5spadenormal.gif (2 Players)
UTG bets 60,000, JodaB. calls 60,000

Turn: (190,800) 8diamond.gif (2 Players)
UTG bets 518,056 and is All-In, JodaB ???

Comments

  • Richard~Richard~
    I mean calling seems standard/fine unless you have a way stronger read. It also seems like an easy 3bet get it in pre
  • UnknownUnknown
    Richard~ wrote: »
    I mean calling seems standard/fine unless you have a way stronger read. It also seems like an easy 3bet get it in pre
    no i don't have a strong read to fold.....

    thought about 3betting pre.....but i don't think i can get it in for value.....not sure if im saying it right but i really think his continuing range is like qq+ ak.......and i don't want to bluff with it....so i really felt i should flat...
  • Richard~Richard~
    you think he's never gonna 4bet bluff 4handed or broaden his hand selection for 30BB's? seems a bit unlikely
  • UnknownUnknown
    Richard~ wrote: »
    you think he's never gonna 4bet bluff 4handed or broaden his hand selection for 30BB's? seems a bit unlikely
    he needs to continue with kq and at for me to be able to 3bet for value no?....I do think from a break even player final four that he has next to zero 4bet bluff range...but i haven't messed around with that kinda thing.......yet >:D
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    I've always wondered about this sort of situation. What do you think op thinks of your stats (assuming he is looking)? Look at it from his perspective...
  • UnknownUnknown
    compuease wrote: »
    I've always wondered about this sort of situation. What do you think op thinks of your stats (assuming he is looking)? Look at it from his perspective...
    i think he just sees me as random.....i certainly don't think he sees me as better.....funny i never to the time to ask myself that tho.....
  • Richard~Richard~
    any villain who doesn't suck knows that your 3bet would be coming from the most standard spot ever, if he continues only with qq-aa and AK he deserves to be shot

    Edit: I doubt he's doing anything but shoving 22 type hands unless you're really tight, I know I wouldn't
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    yoda, your problem is you give way too much credit to villians in 3 bet and 4 bet spots, 4 handed this is an easy 3bet and get it in spot, only way im not is with 30bb your a top 2 stack and the other 2 are very short, then its better to try to move up. But here this is a simple 3 bet snap an all in. either way, as played Im jamming flop prob. lets get it in. stop being so nitty in good spots, whats wrong with you yodaaaaaaaaa
  • windbreakerwindbreaker
    You said you don't want to 3 bet preflop for value, because you don't think he will continue without QQ+, AK. Would be best if you can qualify this....because if this were true...you should 3 bet him every time he opens.

    I find it hard to expect your opponent will fold JJ...1010...99...88...AQ...AJ in a four handed situation with these stack sizes. This is assuming we have no history/knowledge of this player in a short handed situation.

    3 betting pre is the more standard option.

    As played on the flop, I probably shove/raise-get it in on the flop...as there are a lot of turn cards you won't particular love.

    As played.....folding turn seems awful....so call.
  • UnknownUnknown
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    yoda, your problem is you give way too much credit to villians in 3 bet and 4 bet spots, 4 handed this is an easy 3bet and get it in spot, only way im not is with 30bb your a top 2 stack and the other 2 are very short, then its better to try to move up. But here this is a simple 3 bet snap an all in. either way, as played Im jamming flop prob. lets get it in. stop being so nitty in good spots, whats wrong with you yodaaaaaaaaa
    this here is beyond new for me.......
    i just don't know what were trying to get it all in vs villain with....are we thinking at kq and stuff......or we don't care its just another flip vs his range???

    i just feel guys are gonna be really tight here but ya obv i gotta rethink this......
  • UnknownUnknown
    Richard~ wrote: »
    any villain who doesn't suck knows that your 3bet would be coming from the most standard spot ever, if he continues only with qq-aa and AK he deserves to be shot

    Edit: I doubt he's doing anything but shoving 22 type hands unless you're really tight, I know I wouldn't
    yes and tt jj aq...... :-\
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    We have a big hand 4 handed. AJ is way above average for 4 handed. A lot of people will 4 bet jam suited As that you have killed. smaller pairs where we are flipping against. I dont expect him to fold kq or even kj, so he also might flat those hands which will give you big edge. Frig ive been 4 bet shoved on with suited connectors like 78 and 89.
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    You said you don't want to 3 bet preflop for value, because you don't think he will continue without QQ+, AK. Would be best if you can qualify this....because if this were true...you should 3 bet him every time he opens.

    I find it hard to expect your opponent will fold JJ...1010...99...88...AQ...AJ in a four handed situation with these stack sizes. This is assuming we have no history/knowledge of this player in a short handed situation.
    if i could qualify it...which i can't and seems im way to tight in my ranging......but if i could then we wouldn't be 3betting ajo....we would be 3betting 72o and trash i think....i'm flatting here because he's gonna open alot of weaker aces...

    but i didn't realize i could 3bet get it in here.....
  • UnknownUnknown
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    We have a big hand 4 handed. AJ is way above average for 4 handed. A lot of people will 4 bet jam suited As that you have killed. smaller pairs where we are flipping against. I dont expect him to fold kq or even kj, so he also might flat those hands which will give you big edge. Frig ive been 4 bet shoved on with suited connectors like 78 and 89.
    isn't that high stakes tho?......i wouldn't know i haven't been here enough....i mean these guys are playing like wussy nits....i don't know if thats my read or my assumption....but theres no 4 bet folding etc really going on......but ill look for it all im gaining experience to see it like this and i know thats where the monies are at!
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    well how can they do it, if your never giving them the opportunity too? this is the 55 nightly is it not? how does this not fall in that range?. top 5 biggest tourneys at night.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    darbday wrote: »
    isn't that high stakes tho?......i wouldn't know i haven't been here enough....i mean these guys are playing like wussy nits....i don't know if thats my read or my assumption....but theres no 4 bet folding etc really going on......but ill look for it all im gaining experience to see it like this and i know thats where the monies are at!

    So i guess this means I should never reply to any of these, everytime I do this is the response i get.
  • UnknownUnknown
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    So i guess this means I should never reply to any of these, everytime I do this is the response i get.
    flukin' i guess


    ^-^
  • jdAA88jdAA88
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    So i guess this means I should never reply to any of these, everytime I do this is the response i get.

    No! Your replies are very much appreciated, but I definitely understand where Darbs is coming from. The overall skill level/table dynamics even in the nightly $55 on stars + smaller mtts on avg are def gonna be different (i.e. less skilled) than the HS mtts. I.E. most players are gonna think about flatting a 3b here before ever thinking of 4b light/folding, 4b light jamming, etc.

    That being said, I agree that AJ is just too big of a hand 4handed/with your stack to not 3b/get in here and if we're flipping then so be it.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    I know but its like you guys dont think I take these thoughts into consideration when im posting. I dont just play HS stuff i mix in the 22s as well. We would love a flat here after our 3 bet, we will win that hand such a high % of the time. So many people at this level flat then snap fold the cbet. its free chips, how i see it anyways
  • UnknownUnknown
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    I know but its like you guys dont think I take these thoughts into consideration when im posting. I dont just play HS stuff i mix in the 22s as well. We would love a flat here after our 3 bet, we will win that hand such a high % of the time. So many people at this level flat then snap fold the cbet. its free chips, how i see it anyways
    no i just never asked...but ill assume it now....
  • UnknownUnknown
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    So many people at this level flat then snap fold the cbet. its free chips, how i see it anyways
    this is why aj is not a good hand for that tho, cause thats bluffing and semi bluffing...no? .

    ....but your primary argument is to get it in for value....which i will note and apply ^-^.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    no thats not bluffing, we can get it in vs worse hands and worse hands will flat sometimes. no one can predict 100% what a villian will do. But i can tell you what you should do
  • Richard~Richard~
    inducing 4bet bluffs is applicable to any level of tournament. Especially the final table of one of the biggest mid stakes tournament out there
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    well ill beeeeeeeeeeeeee damnedddddddd, richard and I agree :P
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