How to play JJ??

asxn557

PokerStars Game #65307128841: Tournament #421133664, $4.10+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2011/07/30 21:49:19 ET
Table '421133664 3' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: polen_bueno (963 in chips)
Seat 2: asxn557 (5673 in chips)
Seat 4: The Devil.br (331 in chips)
Seat 5: canafistula (3693 in chips)
Seat 6: Emylyan18 (3464 in chips)
Seat 7: Three Ken (940 in chips)
Seat 8: naijapokerer (2995 in chips)
Seat 9: Putinio.Kr (3695 in chips)
Putinio.Kr: posts small blind 75
polen_bueno: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to asxn557 [Jh Jd]
asxn557: raises 300 to 450
The Devil.br: folds
canafistula: calls 450
Emylyan18: folds
Three Ken: folds
naijapokerer: folds
Putinio.Kr: folds
polen_bueno: raises 513 to 963 and is all-in
asxn557: folds
canafistula: calls 513
*** FLOP *** [Js Jc Tc]
*** TURN *** [Js Jc Tc] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [Js Jc Tc 4h] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
polen_bueno: shows [Qc 8c] (a pair of Jacks)
canafistula: shows [Ac 9c] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
canafistula collected 2451 from pot
polen_bueno finished the tournament in 57th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2451 | Rake 0
Board [Js Jc Tc 4h As]
Seat 1: polen_bueno (big blind) showed [Qc 8c] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 2: asxn557 folded before Flop
Seat 4: The Devil.br folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: canafistula showed [Ac 9c] and won (2451) with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 6: Emylyan18 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Three Ken folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: naijapokerer (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Putinio.Kr (small blind) folded before Flop

Unknown

is this a real question or a bad beat? if its real then please explain your thought process in this hand so you can get an answer that suits you..

jontm

I am far from an expert and I think this is a "doh!" post, but your play confuses me here...you are initial raiser, you bet 3x blind, a flat call and short stack shove. You, chipleader (boomswitch "on" fold. I understand that ICM wise, you don't need to be flipping, but you are only behind to QQ, KK, AA. The short stack wants a flip and most likely since he is all in, player in-between will check down?

Why not see a flop here? I also noticed this isn't SNG, so now I am slightly more confused?

windbreaker

Shove > raise-call > call > fold

Vekked

I would be putting in at least all of my chips. Btw there's an MTT Strategy section that you can post hands in like this.

T8urmoney

Vekked wrote: »

I would be putting in at least all of my chips. Btw there's an MTT Strategy section that you can post hands in like this.

This, but seems like a horribad fold to me.

Obviously I'm an anti nit, and never folding unless his range is ridiculous high

getem76

ya Im somewhere in the area of a mis-click honestly...its totally a flip read, if he has a monster so be it and your wrong.....Id take this race everytime with blinds like that and stacks!

asxn557

I figured I was behind overcards and didn't want to pay to see a flop. So the flop had to have a J for me to win. As it turns out, I was wrong. My point was that there is no correct way to play J's. This was a 180-man MTT.

Vekked

asxn557 wrote: »

My point was that there is no correct way to play J's.

Except for going all in.

Wetts1012

yikes.

Unknown

asxn557 wrote: »

I figured I was behind overcards and didn't want to pay to see a flop. So the flop had to have a J for me to win. As it turns out, I was wrong. My point was that there is no correct way to play J's. This was a 180-man MTT.

ok ok....play them fearlessly....if its correct to jam ...then jam...if its correct to fold then fold.....without fear and reservation....don't play them any other way

betrthanphil

WOW, after seeing one hand (that being this one) i can say this with 100% certainty. If you wanna make money at this game you need to get some books, join some training sites, and participate in forums like this. I dont think Ive ever seen this before haha. How can you fold and say you dont wanna race. You have invested 450 in already and its only 523 more where your prob gonna be able to get it checked down to the river. Besides that its not even gonna be a race that often, your hand will be way ahead a lot of the time. The guy is shoving for like 6bb, his range is soooo wide. A fold here should never ever ever be an option. Im in shock right now lol
Finally...........

NIT!!!!!!!!!!!

jontm

darbday wrote: »

ok ok....play them fearlessly....if its correct to jam ...then jam...if its correct to fold then fold.....without fear and reservation....don't play them any other way

I don't want anyone here to come across as a bunch of dicks, absolutely this^^^

JJ, 10,10 hands shouldn't always be a snap, but in this particular situation you have everything going for you IMO. Honest the iso shove is prob best, but I can understand you don't a flip or find yourself cold-decked.

I will say that two things apply here that in my Nit stages I was very guilty of;

Not considering the POSSIBLE hands out there in terms of a number that are ahead. 3 hands = not very often are you beat. It's only 2 bet, so we can assume that the other guy prob iso shove 3 bet his KK, QQ, AA and then
maybe fold. Considering your stack size you have to call either of these players a ton of the time. You would still be sitting deep relative to blinds.

Flips suck, I hate leaving my fate to the cards and yes, good chance if overs to the jack flop you are beat and might have to fold if the other guy jams. That said, after watching these guys commenting in the threads very deep in some big online tournaments, I was 100% convinced that it is necessary to make these flips when either short stacked or against the short stack and getting over the fear of "monsters under the bed" has helped me come back at home games or knock players out where I would have previously folded.

Seriously, not to stroke any egos...you have the screen names of some very successful players here and WCCOOP just around the corner. While you are grinding, just watch some of the games. Look at the flip situations over and over again, watch the stacks swing a little but over the same session syou will most likely be convinced that you can flip far more often than you have been with far smaller pairs in these type of situations

betrthanphil

well said!

getem76

Lastly the way it played out cana probably folds if you call, if he doest you either get it in on him with no overs or these things happen and thats poker....as for the other guys range at this short, your not alone.....but lets just say his range?? might be anything stronger than 76 off suit....i will take that race for $$$ everytime!

betrthanphil

all i have to say is if for some reason I misclick raised with like 54os in the same spot and that guy shoved with the same stack. Im still calling, the pot odds are just too much to fold. You getting just about 4-1 in a spot where you gonna see all 5 cards pretty often, and almost 5-1 if cana calls which im pretty confident that he will.

getem76

betrthanphil wrote: »

all i have to say is if for some reason I misclick raised with like 54os in the same spot and that guy shoved with the same stack. Im still calling, the pot odds are just too much to fold. You getting just about 4-1 in a spot where you gonna see all 5 cards pretty often, and almost 5-1 if cana calls which im pretty confident that he will.

os, no no thats a fold!! suited YES.....I should just click like instead but, nah! kidding course but ya....should just blame it on a bad mouse