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ft 45 man T7

UnknownUnknown
in MTT Strategy
money bubble is seven....std chip leader shove?

Poker Stars, $6.42 + $0.58 NL Hold'em Tournament, 1,000/2,000 Blinds, 100 Ante, 4 Players


JodaB. (UTG): 26,052
BTN: 14,570
SB: 9,842
BB: 17,036

Pre-Flop: (3,400) Tclub.gif 9heartnormal.gif dealt to JodaB. (UTG)
JodaB. raises to 25,952 and is All-In
«1

Comments

  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    I think a shove polarizes your hand, a 2.5x-3x open will show more strength. You are obviously shoving knowing very well that sb will be calling most hands so why not just raise.

    If BB or btn wakes up with a hand you have just butchered your chip lead. I mean there is 3400 in the middle you can easily raise 2 times and steal those chips back if you do get pushed on by the SB.
  • djgolfcandjgolfcan
    No reason to shove here. Not sure why you included the money bubble as we are past it. I just raise and steal the blinds, and fold to any three bet. No reason to risk so much of your stack with a marginal hand.
  • reibsreibs
    9 bbs eff, no room to r/f here.... Im jamming or folding. Most likely folding in game. Thats likely something I need to work on though.

    I think BTN & BB must fold when we shove here no?

    edit: ya i messed up the stack sizes there. looks like this is a fold unless everyone is super nitty
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    muck it
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Exactly when did you transform from a supernit to a huge spewtard?

    Sorry, havent been paying attention.

    I like you better this way. NH.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    Exactly when did you transform from a supernit to a huge spewtard?
    wait...i thougth we call that balance and polarization ???
  • UnknownUnknown
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    I think a shove polarizes your hand, a 2.5x-3x open will show more strength.
    i don't think you mean polarize its seems to me you mean 'caps'....none the less we cannot raise./fold to any of these stacks....so we are certainly raise/calling anyone....
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    You are obviously shoving knowing very well that sb will be calling most hands so why not just raise.
    no ...sb will not be calling likely...very tight range since in a 7 dollar tourney he is waiting for a hand....or he is smart to know he has to call some what tighter....
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    If BB or btn wakes up with a hand
    i know how often this happens.....and i don't feel like its enough....
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    . I mean there is 3400 in the middle you can easily raise 2 times and steal those chips back if you do get pushed on by the SB.
    as long as by raising we mean shoving or at least rasise calling..because we cannot likely raise and fold for the rest of the tourny...

    thx for the input don't hear alot from you and i appreciate different points of view!!!!!!!!!!!
  • UnknownUnknown
    djgolfcan wrote: »
    Not sure why you included the money bubble as we are past it.
    i mentioned it so we were clear that we were past it....which worked because you knew we were.....and thats important of course because people play tighter at this point, and because we need to be aware of pay jumps for ourselves.....

    djgolfcan wrote: »
    I just raise and steal the blinds, and fold to any three bet.
    i don't believe thats an option....as we have odds to call any ones shove on our min raise...prob even on a limp....
  • UnknownUnknown
    reibs wrote: »

    I think BTN & BB must fold when we shove here no?
    +1
    reibs wrote: »
    edit: ya i messed up the stack sizes there. looks like this is a fold unless everyone is super nitty
  • UnknownUnknown
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    muck it

    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    huge spewtard?

    NH.


    <popcorn.gif>
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    darbday wrote: »
    <popcorn.gif>

    sarcasm.jpg
  • UnknownUnknown
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    sarcasm.jpg
    ???........its wasn't very applied....so this is spewtard? and nh meant not nh?

    but wait...when was i a super nit .....???

    how does a non exploitable jam hand become a fold when we know that the other players are calling way tighter?
  • windbreakerwindbreaker
    This is far from an unexploitable shove. In terms of chip EV, it's probably a profitable shove. In terms of icm, it's a rather poor shove.
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    This is far from an unexploitable shove. In terms of chip EV, it's probably a profitable shove. In terms of icm, it's a rather poor shove.
    ill be back with the math which i haven't done


    nonetheless thx
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    In terms of icm, it's a rather poor shove.
    sng wiz has this as a shove with

    but at 66+ ATo+ A9s+
    sb with 66 ATo+ A9s
    BB 55+ ATo+ A9s+
  • windbreakerwindbreaker
    I'm not sure you understand what unexploitable shoves means. Unexploitable shoves means that you can turn your cards face up and shove....and your opponents will only call you with better hands.

    That means if you're shoving 109o, your opponents calling range is Ax+, Kx+, Qx+, Jx+, 109s/109o, 66+...and some 55 and 44...depending on the actual suit.

    Good luck w/ 3 players left to act that none of them can beat 109o.
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    Unexploitable shoves means that you can turn your cards face up and shove....and your opponents will only call you with better hands.
    are you saying if i turn my cards face up someone will call with T8o?\

    what i thought an unexploitable shove was is when you turn your 'range' face up and your oppenent cannot come up with a 'calling range' that gains off of us..
  • windbreakerwindbreaker
    Last time I check 109 > 108...so no they fold that? Unexploitable shoves are based on how profitable your shove is when you are ONLY called by better hands.

    Like I said before, this is probably a +chipEV shove...given that you have enough equity when called...you're not that deep stacked and such....but this totally ignores payout structures...and the famous three letters icm.
    darbday wrote: »
    are you saying if i turn my cards face up someone will call with T8o?\

    what i thought an unexploitable shove was is when you turn your 'range' face up and your oppenent cannot come up with a 'calling range' that gains off of us..
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    Unexploitable shoves are based on how profitable your shove is when you are ONLY called by better hands.
    so if we shove aces......we are never called by better hands.....and then we are unexploitable or exploitable.....?

    and if we shove 87s....?
  • windbreakerwindbreaker
    I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand...Shoving aces is always unexploitable....because no one can ever call with a better hand...you will always win the blinds and antes if everyone folds. If someone calls, you always have equity of 50% or greater.

    Unexploitable plays doesn't mean it's the best way to play the hand. No one in their right mind is open shoving aces for 1000 bbs.

    Unexploitable plays are based on math...determined by EV.

    Your EV is determined by these factors:

    A) How much you win when you shove and no one calls
    B) How often do the players left to act pick up a better hand
    C) How much you risk, when called
    D) How much equity does your actual hand have vs the range of hands that would call you knowing it's ahead.
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand...Shoving aces is always unexploitable....because no one can ever call with a better hand...
    so then is 87 exploitable because someone could call with aces?
  • windbreakerwindbreaker
    Yes. 87s is very exploitable deepstacked. Aging we are talking about when you shove pre flop and only get called by better.
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    Yes. 87s is very exploitable deepstacked. Aging we are talking about when you shove pre flop and only get called by better.
    no...were not talking deepstacked....:p
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    Unexploitable shoves means that you can turn your cards face up and shove....and your opponents will only call you with better hands.
    ok seriously though......W....T.....F?......:bs:
  • windbreakerwindbreaker
    It's probably easier for you to just search for this info on the web. I always thought the term unexploitable shoves were self explanatory.

    One way to think about it...is that whenever there's dead money in the pot (blinds, antes, or even if someone raises) and you shove, you can do an EV calculation based on the effective stacks (how can you win if called, how much you risk when lose), % of times player calls with a better hand, your equity vs those hand ranges.

    The term unexploitable here refers to the fact when you shove a particular hand at a certain stack depth, your opponent won't pick up hands enough times to compensate for the dead money given w/ your equity when called.
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    It's probably easier for you to just search for this info on the web. I always thought the term unexploitable shoves were self explanatory.

    One way to think about it...is that whenever there's dead money in the pot (blinds, antes, or even if someone raises) and you shove, you can do an EV calculation based on the effective stacks (how can you win if called, how much you risk when lose), % of times player calls with a better hand, your equity vs those hand ranges.

    The term unexploitable here refers to the fact when you shove a particular hand at a certain stack depth, your opponent won't pick up hands enough times to compensate for the dead money given w/ your equity when called.
    yes thank you for replying like this...that is what i think it is, i just can't understand what you meant earlier. not sure if its just a different way of seeing it....doesn't matter....

    windbreaker wrote: »
    This is far from an unexploitable shove. In terms of chip EV, it's probably a profitable shove. In terms of icm, it's a rather poor shove.
    nash was down for the last few days...youre right its not....the unexploitable range is 31 percent ...t9o come in at about 35%....not sure if im saying that right....
  • windbreakerwindbreaker
    Not sure where your'e getting your numbers. I'm only aware of the Nash push-fold chart for HU's w/ no antes. You can't be applying the same range for play when you're 4 handed utg w/ blinds and antes...the range changes completely.
  • UnknownUnknown
    windbreaker wrote: »
    Not sure where your'e getting your numbers. I'm only aware of the Nash push-fold chart for HU's w/ no antes. You can't be applying the same range for play when you're 4 handed utg w/ blinds and antes...the range changes completely.
    its everyone is....but at holdemresources dot net theres a free calculator where you put in the the stack sizes the payouts and the blinds and antes...and it will give you the ranges...
  • getem76getem76
    windbreaker wrote: »
    Unexploitable plays doesn't mean it's the best way to play the hand. No one in their right mind is open shoving aces for 1000 bbs.
    QUOTE]


    Just a second here....IS THIS why I get yelled at???

    Constantly depending whom Im with I do this then be yelled at for it
    "Who the fuck does that!!!" Im told

    I DO THIS, perhaps this is part of that image thing LOL
    of course when I just get the blinds I dont flip it up
  • UnknownUnknown
    did i get the info right?

    HoldemResources.net: Beta ICM Nash Calculator
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