Jan 25 WSOP notes

Dave Scharf

As always... comments and criticism are welcome. I am trying to get better.

Tuesday, January 25, 2005


Pre-flop v. post-flop play: Most players develop a pre-flop strategy. In fact, because there is less to condsider pre-flop (no board cards) then the situations one finds oneself in are a lot less complicated than post-flop. Many rote strategies (for example, Sklansky’s “System”) will reasonably model optimal play. What this means is that even bad players can play well pre-flop. Post-flop, on the other hand, the world become much more complicated and rote strategies have much less application since there are so many more possibilities. This is why Daniel Negreanu is able to have the success that he does. He is very good at getting players out of their comfort zone (i.e. moving them past the flop) and then outplaying them.



What application does this have? Against players who are better than you are, play them pre-flop using massive pre-flop aggression. Keep them in your court. Do not let them take home court advantage. However, against players that you are superior to you want to get them past the flop and out play them.



Big Easy here I come: Airfare and hotel are booked (with Ralph) for the Harrah’s WSOP event in New Orleans at the end of May. That will probably be my only major live tournament before the WSOP Championship in July. It will be an excellent tune up. On back to back days I will be playing the $1K and $1.5K no-limit hold’em events. Most excellent.



Mistakes comes in bunches: When I see a player make an obviously bad play online I note “p” under their name (for “provider”). I have puzzled over whether this is really helpful since there are many different errors that an individual can make. But, I think it is helpful since errors tend to come in bunches. If a player is prone to making bad bets, he probably also makes bad calls, etc. So “p” means bet at him a lot and call him down with reasonable holdings.



The Zen of poker: Played a $500 sit-n-go and played very well. I layed down J-J pre-flop in a hand to discover I was against A-A and Q-Q. But, ultimately, I went brok in 8th spot. It was a lesson in Zen, though. I believe I took only what the universe provided me with and I was not angry that it was not enough. Poker is like that. Take what the game gives you – namely, what this combination of player, cards, and position allows you to harvest. Do not harvest more than you are given. Do not be greedy.



Online poker is like speed training: Running today and came to an epiphany about running that may apply to poker (then again, what doesn’t apply to poker). On my last run I felt great – lots of energy and a really fast pace. On today’s run I felt sluggish and I thought my pace was really slow. After both runs, however, my heart rate monitor revealed my pace to have been identical. The lesson? Years of plodding have established “my pace.” No matter how I feel my neural pathways cause my legs to move at speed X (about 10K per hour). Thus, to get faster you must do some speed training. You must exert some energy running at faster speeds so that you will retrain your brain (cool – a rhyming slogan).



What does this have to do with poker? Frequently in tournament play I act too quickly. I have often noted that when I do take the time to make the right decision I do very well. So, why do I frequently rush my decisions? It’s because I have trained my brain to make snap poker decisions. How? By playing three or four games at once online. If live play is 30 hands per hour then online-four-game play is about 200 hands per hour. You gotta move baby. The vast majority of the decisions are perfectly routine, but it causes some complex decisions in live play to be rushed. Just a theory, but I am going to try a few days “decompression” before New Orleans to train my brain for a slower pace.

Amy C

Dave wrote:

Online poker is like speed training: Running today and came to an epiphany about running that may apply to poker (then again, what doesn’t apply to poker). On my last run I felt great – lots of energy and a really fast pace. On today’s run I felt sluggish and I thought my pace was really slow. After both runs, however, my heart rate monitor revealed my pace to have been identical. The lesson? Years of plodding have established “my pace.” No matter how I feel my neural pathways cause my legs to move at speed X (about 10K per hour). Thus, to get faster you must do some speed training. You must exert some energy running at faster speeds so that you will retrain your brain (cool – a rhyming slogan).

What does this have to do with poker? Frequently in tournament play I act too quickly. I have often noted that when I do take the time to make the right decision I do very well. So, why do I frequently rush my decisions? It’s because I have trained my brain to make snap poker decisions. How? By playing three or four games at once online. If live play is 30 hands per hour then online-four-game play is about 200 hands per hour. You gotta move baby. The vast majority of the decisions are perfectly routine, but it causes some complex decisions in live play to be rushed. Just a theory, but I am going to try a few days “decompression” before New Orleans to train my brain for a slower pace.

It was a coincidence that just after I read this I saw two posts I thought of interest.

From Daniel Negreanu's blog:

A young player in late position makes it 150 to go, the button calls and I call from the small blind with Q-4 of hearts and the big blind also calls. The flop comes down 7-4-4 with two spades. I check, the big blind checks and the original raiser bets 200. The button calls and I make it 500. The big blind folds and the first raiser says, “I’m all in.”

“Huh? Are you serious?” I thought to myself, “Do you really have pocket sevens?” I thought for a few seconds and finally asked him a question, “Do you play on the internet?” “Yes, unfortunately I do.” he replied. I shot all my chips to the center after hearing that and doubled up against his 9-9.

From Mike Paulle's blog:

Mark 'The Boss' Napolitano just had a scary hand with Lee Watkinson. Lee raised Mark's 8k bet another 12k from the small blind. If Mark would have hesitated, I think he would have had a pot odds call from Lee for Mark's last 27,400. But Mark went all-in immediately and after some thought Lee laid his hand down.

As Dave points out, speed matters in online play. A miscalculated decision is easily rectified by one's ability to perform speedy decisions in subsequent hands or on simultaneous tables. But Dave, apparently is not the only one to know this. Daniel specifically asks his opponent if he is an online player. Daniel realizes that if he is, chances are that he rushed his decision without properly factoring in what he was up against, causing him to go all-in without a nut hand.

You might think that the Mark Napolitano hand is at odds with the "speed kills" in live play hypothesis. But I don't think it is. Mark's speedy all-in doesn't necessarily reflect a rushed decision. Lee has to believe that Mark's immediate all-in retaliation may have been calculated BEFORE Mark made his initial raise. Mark's action to re-raise all-in was "fast" - but reflected the execution of a calculated and considered thought process that occurred before the betting action began (whether true or not). Although Lee might have pot odds to make a call, he can't discount the possibility that Mark's move was deliberate. He factors this in - and folds.

Speed of the action and speed of the decision process are two different things. Good players recognize the difference. The other obvious difference between the two blogged scenarios is when the key action takes place. There is more information available post flop which usually equates to a more complex decision process. See Dave's thoughts about pre and post flop play.

As Dave notes, Negreanu is considered to be a very skilled post-flop player. He is also a very slow and deliberate post-flop player. I think there could be something to it.


Amy Calistri aka Amy C aka oil doe

stpboy

The saying "speed kills" can, as Amy and Dave have written, have two different interpretations to you. The speed in which someone calls, raises, checks, bets etc. can affect your play. While playing in the Brantford Tournament Final, blinds 600/1200, I raise to 5K with AK and immediately get called by guy on my left. The BB thinks for over a minute and calls. Two very different reactions to my hefty raise. Who am I more concerned about? Why?
Flop comes down Q x x rainbow. BB checks, I check and the fast caller bets out 10K. We both fold. The Big blinds says out loud exactly what I was thinking "you called his raise to quickly". The Big had JJ (apparantly), and the fast caller had Q10 suited (apparantly).
This was a very interesting hand to me, I'm not sure if his fast calling method in this situation was deliberate and if it could be used in future situations for myself to influence betting in later streets.
BTW, Q10 guy ended up finishing 3rd overall...

stp

Dave Scharf

To point out the obvious, there are two issues here:

(1) Timing tells. How quickly a player acts will tend to tell you something about his hand; and
(2) Retraining my neural synapsese to slow down. Not because it's a tell, but because I act on instinct.

sweetjimmi

First issue, I think timing tells are especially true to with the average player. The average player tends to have to a lot more decisions than pro or beginning players. Quite often you can use the speed in which they act to help shrink the box you have them in.

Second issue has become a leak for me. I have caught myself making plays that I would not have made had I taken the time to evaluate the entire situation. I couldn't agree more that this directly related to playing online. I have stopped using the action boxes and now working on thinking out every decision minor, major, and everything between. I figure if I evaluate every decision then I will at least know I am thinking while I play. As to often I have found myself in auto mode.

Amy C

Dave's notes and the subsequent discussion inspired me to write up an article about decision speed. The link follows:

http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/calistri08.htm

As always Dave, thanks for the inspiration,

Amy Calistri aka Amy C aka oil doe

stpboy

Great subject, great article.

stp