Dealing with tough beats in tournaments (Long)
Hi Dave,
I'm looking for an opinion on how one deals with a crippling beat in a tournament setting. Let me set the stage and play out the hand and I'll get to the specific questions at the end.
This hand took place just at the start of the 7th level in the Regina Limit Hold'em Classic last month. For reference, blinds 150 - 300, limits 300 - 600.
I'm in the BB. One early limper and the rest fold to a Rock in early-mid-position who raises. Folded to the small blind who sheepishly calls. I check my cards and to my delight find AA. Each of the players in the pot have slightly above average stacks. I reraise, limper folds, the Rock caps it, SB calls, I call.
I take a moment to evaluate what my oponents may have. I put the Rock on a big pair. He has been very tight to this point and has only shown aggression with a very strong holding. The SB is a little tougher to call, he has in passing admitted to me that he is willing to see flops for any price. Difficult to put him on a hand.
The flop comes JJ6. The SB checks, I bet, the Rock raises, SB calls. Now I am at a decision point, if the SB had had the Jack he would have reraised in this position. Though he is a wild card he does bet with the best. So I do not put him on trips, thus with this board I know I have him beat. The Rock on the other hand either has a lesser two pair or quads if I was right earlier. Therefore I reraise with the knowledge that if it is capped I have to seriously consider dropping my AA. Called all around (the SB player stating that it was time to go home).
Turn comes 8, I bet, the Rock and SB call. River hits with a 5. The board is rainbow, no flushes. To my surprise, SB bets. I took less time then I should have to consider what would make him bet, I put him on a smaller two pair at this point. I raise, the Rock folds, SB calls. I show my AA, the SB shows a straight 4-8. He hung in there with a 47o through all the raising.
The entire table reacted to this hit with the common, "Ouch." "Holy Cow" etc. The Rock admitted to having folded KK on the river and the SB laughingly said he thought I might have had 97 to beat him out.
Alright, bad beat. AA cracked by a runner runner gutshot that really shouldn't have been in the hand. Sure I'm steaming after this and look down at my single 1000 chip in shock, thinking that by all rights I should be up around 10000.
Just before the supper break I manage to double through thanks to the table maniac, but I am still steaming and in disbelief. Not to the point of playing poorly, but it is weighing heavy on my mind.
So the question is, how does one deal with it? I mean beats like this happen to us all. Everyone who has played any measure of poker can give a similar story. I don't think that this would have happened in a cash game, and if it had, taking solice that I had perfect playing position on this player would be enough. I can win money back from them in time and would do everything in my power to make them comfortable and happy at the table.
But in a tournament setting, how does one deal with a beat like that. It likely didn't help that I was taken out of the stud and Omaha/8 tournaments the last two days on runner runners as well, so I was getting a complex.
This has become long enough. Any advice from you or anyone else is appreciated.
Mike
I'm looking for an opinion on how one deals with a crippling beat in a tournament setting. Let me set the stage and play out the hand and I'll get to the specific questions at the end.
This hand took place just at the start of the 7th level in the Regina Limit Hold'em Classic last month. For reference, blinds 150 - 300, limits 300 - 600.
I'm in the BB. One early limper and the rest fold to a Rock in early-mid-position who raises. Folded to the small blind who sheepishly calls. I check my cards and to my delight find AA. Each of the players in the pot have slightly above average stacks. I reraise, limper folds, the Rock caps it, SB calls, I call.
I take a moment to evaluate what my oponents may have. I put the Rock on a big pair. He has been very tight to this point and has only shown aggression with a very strong holding. The SB is a little tougher to call, he has in passing admitted to me that he is willing to see flops for any price. Difficult to put him on a hand.
The flop comes JJ6. The SB checks, I bet, the Rock raises, SB calls. Now I am at a decision point, if the SB had had the Jack he would have reraised in this position. Though he is a wild card he does bet with the best. So I do not put him on trips, thus with this board I know I have him beat. The Rock on the other hand either has a lesser two pair or quads if I was right earlier. Therefore I reraise with the knowledge that if it is capped I have to seriously consider dropping my AA. Called all around (the SB player stating that it was time to go home).
Turn comes 8, I bet, the Rock and SB call. River hits with a 5. The board is rainbow, no flushes. To my surprise, SB bets. I took less time then I should have to consider what would make him bet, I put him on a smaller two pair at this point. I raise, the Rock folds, SB calls. I show my AA, the SB shows a straight 4-8. He hung in there with a 47o through all the raising.
The entire table reacted to this hit with the common, "Ouch." "Holy Cow" etc. The Rock admitted to having folded KK on the river and the SB laughingly said he thought I might have had 97 to beat him out.
Alright, bad beat. AA cracked by a runner runner gutshot that really shouldn't have been in the hand. Sure I'm steaming after this and look down at my single 1000 chip in shock, thinking that by all rights I should be up around 10000.
Just before the supper break I manage to double through thanks to the table maniac, but I am still steaming and in disbelief. Not to the point of playing poorly, but it is weighing heavy on my mind.
So the question is, how does one deal with it? I mean beats like this happen to us all. Everyone who has played any measure of poker can give a similar story. I don't think that this would have happened in a cash game, and if it had, taking solice that I had perfect playing position on this player would be enough. I can win money back from them in time and would do everything in my power to make them comfortable and happy at the table.
But in a tournament setting, how does one deal with a beat like that. It likely didn't help that I was taken out of the stud and Omaha/8 tournaments the last two days on runner runners as well, so I was getting a complex.
This has become long enough. Any advice from you or anyone else is appreciated.
Mike
Comments
Ask Phil Hellmuth. Heh. Just kidding.
The more serious answer is: "If you figure out the answer, let me know."
Woohoo. I'm killing myself.
OK... one more time. Seriously.
I am not sure what you are asking. I think you are asking "How do I put a BAD beat behind me and move on to the next hand? How do I forget about it?
I have struggled with this sort of thing myself. There are only a couple of things that I can suggest.
(1) Hate the player who put the beat on you. Loathe him. He is a fool. He deserves to have his chips taken from him. Make it your only goal in the tournament to bust that rat infested son-of-a-female-dog out of the tournament and laugh at him as he slinks off the tournament floor. You probably feel this way ANYWAY so let it motivate you. You will not get your chance for REVENGE if you go broke. Make it motivating.
(2) Play a lot of poker. I have spent a lot of time making peace with the fact that "poker is like that." Easy to say, hard to do. You MUST become performance oriented and NOT results oriented (in the short run). This assumes that you have developed sufficient skill to see that you played a given hand well or not. If you played the hand well and got unlucky... kay-serah-serah. Easy to say, hard to do.
Good luck. Very much human nature to NOT get over it as quickly as you want to in order to keep playing well.
Oh... don't ACTUALLY laugh at him on the way out, that would be rude.
I terms of the actual play of the actual hand, I think I might have slowed down quite a bit earlier in the hand. It may be time to go into the "I'm either losing already, or I'm winning and my opponents have incredibly thin draws" shell. I don't think I would have folded the hand at any point, but I might have merely called the 2nd flop bet, and checked the turn (with the intention of calling 1 bet and *maybe* folding to 2 bets). On the river, I don't think I'd put in a raise. Obviously you can't anticipate the SB's actual hand, but there are too many hands that beat you that the SB could have been slowplaying here. Generally when the first position player has been calling all the way, and suddenly "wakes up" with a river bet, it indicates a monster hand that the SB is *deathly* afraid will be checked around if he goes for a check-raise. A fold here is pretty much out of the quesiton, and I think this is a textbook spot to go for the overcall. You'd sure like one more bet from the third player if your hand is good, and you'd rather not risk losing another one (or two) more bets by raising with a hand that the SB beats.
But, once again in terms of the emotional aspects, you can't place too much emphasis on the microscopic. You are clearly going to lose individual hands. You are clearly going to lose individual tournaments. You are clearly going to lose individual cash game sessions. You're going to lose for *all kinds* of reasons. You're going to get drawn out on by 2 outers. You're going to get all-in with KK vs. AA. You're going to get beat up for hours by someone you're up against in a low limit cash game who is playing poker for the first time. What's important are the decisions you make, over and over again. In the long run, they're the only things you have any say over; but, luckily, in the long run they're also the only things that matter.
The best you can do after a hand like this is say "That's poker". And, if you really think about it, hopefully you'll realize that this sort of hand is what ultimately makes the game of poker truly great. In a game where literally anyone can win on even the longest of longshots, there will be so many bad players who *think* they can win (or even think they are *winners*) that poker will be a game that players, both good and bad, will want to play again and again.
And that's what you meant when you said it.
That's poker.
ScottyZ
The way I get over my bad beats is by mathematicizing them. No doubt that poker is more than mathematics, but if someone came up to you and offered you an even money bet where you were the 7-1 favorite, would you take it? Hell yeah, you would. Would you be mad at yourself for taking the bet if you lost it afterwards? I certainly wouldn't be, and I hope you wouldn't be, either. I like to replay a hand, and reassure myself that I was playing correctly, even if I lost. The positive reinforcement encourages the same type of play should I encounter a similar situation. When somebody catches up to you it should bolster your confidence level...you made the right decision! They got caught making the wrong move, and just happened to luck their way out of it. And I guess that, at the end of the day, poker is still gambling...sure, you get to manipulate your odds with skillful play and smart decisions, but it's gambling nonetheless.
Just my two cents...
--chris