tournament skill levels
i use "math boy's patience factor calculator for no limit hold'em tournaments - enhanced by pokerkhan.com". it will figure out the patience factor and the skill level of tournaments by the blind levels. the skill level falls between 1 to 20.
my question is, what is considered a "good" skill level for a live tournament?
i was considering heading down to brantford for one of their weekly tourneys, but i've heard their tournaments are not good. for example, their $150 knock out has a patience factor of 6.75 and a skill level of 4. does this mean that 4 is not "good"?
where do you draw the line on "good" skill level tournaments? 5? 6? higher?
my question is, what is considered a "good" skill level for a live tournament?
i was considering heading down to brantford for one of their weekly tourneys, but i've heard their tournaments are not good. for example, their $150 knock out has a patience factor of 6.75 and a skill level of 4. does this mean that 4 is not "good"?
where do you draw the line on "good" skill level tournaments? 5? 6? higher?
Comments
originally it did. there was an addition to it where it can calculate the weighted patience factor and weighted skill level in regards to the total number of entries in the tournament. it also altered the skill levels adding 7-20.
does that mean everything 6+ is really good? is that the cutoff from "good" structures?
is 5 or 4 that bad?
vekked final tables all.
I'd need to look at it a bit more. Is there a link?
i did happen to come upon the following while trying to search for the link:
Patience Factor - Skill level - comment
1.49 or less - 0 - crap shoot
1.50 to 2.99 - 1 - still very fast, pray for good cards
3.00 to 4.49 - 2 - very fast but good for learning speed play
4.50 to 5.99 - 3 - fast, excellent for good speed players
6.00 to 7.49 - 4 - medium fast, requires more poker skill
7.50 to 9.99 - 5 - medium slow, requires much more poker skill
10.00 and up - 6 - slow, highly skilled players only
however, it does not factor in higher than level 6.
EDIT: here's a .pdf of it at least if that helps.
turbos just require a different type of adjusment..
and also the best you can do is makes the most +ev play...i don't think patience factor is actually in the formula...its more old school
not that its not a factor completely but i think that its way overrated by old school thinkers.
wrong?
I seem to recall a conversation in regards to this...you were adamant that there is no difference..??
its not that it doesn't its that there is no difference..but most players need to see that there is no difference to truly understand whats going on...
and most would do better i believe to think that there is zero difference.
For me it really allows me to judge how wide to open / stack off with preflop
so you're saying that this whole skill level assessment is pointless and that a skill level 3 or 4 tournament is just as "good" a structure as a 6+?
^this.
in the wsop main event, if i have AK early i'm not going to go broke with it (most likely) because there is so much play. early in a turbo, i'm pushing AK hard.
blind structure counts but i think ranges and stack sizes are way more important considerations....
edit: many times we come to the same shove or call conclusion but for a different reason i mean...
just waitin on the big boys to make me look retarded...either way im right or i learn.....winning!
also that with such a big field and strong field...all in pre early with ak...may actually be a good idea......did i just go 180?
as Darb says, it doesn't really matter how "good" or "bad" the structure is as long as you adjust your play accordingly.. However the better structure favors the better player as it gives one more time to "suck" the bad player dry... More of a luck element in the turbo...
sent.
EDIT: wait, [email][/email]? sent as well heh.
What ever vekked agreed with is actually what i meant...
what i am also saying is that turbo requires a different skillset...different than longer structure which involve decisions more like a deeperstack cash game..
alot of people think you need to build a deepstack early in order to win a turbo, much like people think the secret to rebuys is to bust a bunch of times and load your table with money or until you get a big stack taking marginal spots.
These thoughts stop people from seeing where the edge in these games lie...
until they don't see a turbo as a luckfest they will always fold to much and shove too loose.
You missed our thread on this vekked ill try to dig up the link...maybe dennis can....
Anyways.....so what your sayin is i need to 12 table all night tonight?
Yeah, that discussion started with that AK hand and wanting to get chips early in a turbo vs a non turbo.
but our conversation in person in regards to turbos vs non turbos was that you didn't feel there was a difference in strategies. You basically play each hand as it is. Stack size is what it is this hand, and blinds are what they are...You play each hand as an individual. To this, I guess I can't disagree..
But I am torn... overall, I still feel like we need to approach the whole tournament slightly more aggressive. We are not going to see as many hands overall in a turbo vs. non...so we aren't going to have as many good hands in position, or premiums throughout the game...in turn, I feel like I need to open up the ranges some to account for the lack of hands we are going to see..
I can definitely see (myself, as it has been shown I can be a spewtard shorter stacked) making more mistakes in these with open shoves.(working on that :P )
you might say ill shove A7+ instead of A8+ because the blinds are up next hand....but if A8 is +ev cutoff then A7 is not +ev and doesn't help us win....we can only make +ev or not +ev plays in poker there is no other quantifier with respect to the cev game.
its there but the adjustment is slight and doesn't change the strategy which is to make the most plus +ev play as often as possible...
however because others play so incorrectly usually by playing too loose and shoving too deep and too wide the actual game play does change. Others play too tight.
All we have to worry about is relative stacks and relative positions. Don't worry about the structure much at all, there's no way to force +EV shove spots to come in superturbos. The guys in the ongame 3 min turbo's who shove their 75 BB stack in early and fold their 4 BB stack late from the BB deserve to be shot. The guys at the casino who ship in the full double buy 10k stack in an 80 dollar rebuy at blinds 25/50 to build a stack are retards. All skill level and patience factor means is how long does it take for the structure to force you to gamble hard preflop, it's not something you should ever adjust your hand ranges after unless you're doing like a cute 3bet fold right before blinds go up and dip your stack below 30 BB's or something