Would of anyone done differently post flop?

Goms27

Okay folks have to vent a little bit! I cannot believe PLH22 called my bet pre flop. Wasted two and a half hours! Finished in 29 out of 340. Only the top 9 get spots.

Alas I do have a question - after that flop should I have slowed down and not went all in? With being a little bit short stacked I figured it was my only play, plus I would of almost been pot commited would I not? Would of anyone else played it different?

PokerStars Game #1114507136: Tournament #4652023, Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2005/01/23 - 00:14:29 (ET)
Table '4652023 32' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: PLH22 (15917 in chips)
Seat 2: pwrhtter (5890 in chips)
Seat 3: yodajedi (7450 in chips)
Seat 4: BoardCloud9 (49693 in chips)
Seat 6: chsthird (29180 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: GY57 (17795 in chips)
Seat 8: Goms27 (9022 in chips)
Seat 9: TroyLay (6800 in chips)
PLH22: posts the ante 50
pwrhtter: posts the ante 50
yodajedi: posts the ante 50
BoardCloud9: posts the ante 50
chsthird: posts the ante 50
GY57: posts the ante 50
Goms27: posts the ante 50
TroyLay: posts the ante 50
GY57: posts small blind 300
Goms27: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Goms27 [Jc Ah]
TroyLay: folds
PLH22: calls 600
pwrhtter: folds
yodajedi: folds
BoardCloud9: folds
chsthird: folds
GY57: calls 300
Goms27: raises 3000 to 3600
PLH22: calls 3000
GY57: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d Jd 5d]
Goms27: bets 5372 and is all-in
PLH22: calls 5372
*** TURN *** [3d Jd 5d] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [3d Jd 5d 2s] [Ts]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Goms27: shows [Jc Ah] (a pair of Jacks)
PLH22: shows [9d Qd] (a flush, Queen high)
PLH22 collected 18944 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 18944 | Rake 0
Board [3d Jd 5d 2s Ts]
Seat 1: PLH22 showed [9d Qd] and won (18944) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 2: pwrhtter folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: yodajedi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: BoardCloud9 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: chsthird (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: GY57 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Goms27 (big blind) showed [Jc Ah] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 9: TroyLay folded before Flop (didn't bet)

JuiceMan

I dont think i would have jumped the gun on going all in, especially with jacks he called ur raise so he could have had anything, and three diamonds on the flop. i think i would have pl;ayed more cautiously but i am not that good just my opinion

pkrfce9

Flush showing makes it a bit scary. If you're hoping he has no diamonds, you may have been able to scare him out. Even if he has 1, as long as it is decent, he probably would have called you given the size of the pot. He would have had to put in 5300 chips for a chance at 13.5k. Not bad. Of course, he already had the flush with Q high so the bet is a no brainer for him.

Did he make a mistake calling you pre-flop? I think so. But he had chips to spare and knew he could put you out if he hit a good flop. And he did!

I don't blame you for pushing your chips on the flop but that is a risky move. If you hadn't he would have. If you had checked, you would have called any bet he had made since you had top pair top kicker and he may have been bluffing. So better to get some kind of bet out there and hope he folds. Mind you, since he called you pre-flop, you have to be concerned about what kind of hand he could have. I would expect decent pockets or Ace-high suited. So, he could have a set, an overpair, a flush, overcards or the flop may have completely missed him. You made a big bet, hoping for the latter.

Another way to play it is to check and hope he checks behind you. If it was checked to the turn and the turn looks like it wouldn't help much, that may have been a better spot to push your chips in. I just don't think you would have gotten the chance for this play.

I think your raise pre-flop was a bit much. You added 3k to a pot with just over 2k in it. It almost committed you to the pot. You could have gotten away from it on the flop but it would have been very hard. Something more in the range of 1.2k-1.8k might have been a bit better for you.

What were you hoping to achieve with the raise? My guess is you were hoping to scare the others out but that was not successful. Would a bigger bet have worked? Maybe so but maybe the other guy really loved his hand? If you wanted to build the pot, I would expect only a maniac with a really big stack or someone with a very good hand would call.

It is always easier for someone to look at this after the fact... but that is also the time to look at what we did wrong and maybe learn a bit so we can play it better next time. I think I would have gone with a smaller raise pre-flop. Maybe an exploratory bet on the flop. If he comes over the top or smooth calls, I'd be tempted to shut down. I know it is hard with top pair but there are so many other hands that beat you.

Adam**

Slow down. Classic case of if he calls he can win. There aren't many hands he would call with after flop and not be beating you or really good draw.

Just my thought.

Dave Scharf

Without looking at other responses... my thoughts throughout. By the way, when I go through a hand history like this I don't usually peek ahead. Although, given the introduction I'm guessing that the outcome is not pleasant.

Wasted two and a half hours! Finished in 29 out of 340. Only the top 9 get spots.

The only thing worse than losing is not being in the action at all. It wasn't wasted!

PokerStars Game #1114507136: Tournament #4652023, Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2005/01/23 - 00:14:29 (ET)
Table '4652023 32' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: PLH22 (15917 in chips)
Seat 2: pwrhtter (5890 in chips)
Seat 3: yodajedi (7450 in chips)
Seat 4: BoardCloud9 (49693 in chips)
Seat 6: chsthird (29180 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: GY57 (17795 in chips)
Seat 8: Goms27 (9022 in chips)
Seat 9: TroyLay (6800 in chips)
PLH22: posts the ante 50
pwrhtter: posts the ante 50
yodajedi: posts the ante 50
BoardCloud9: posts the ante 50
chsthird: posts the ante 50
GY57: posts the ante 50
Goms27: posts the ante 50
TroyLay: posts the ante 50
GY57: posts small blind 300
Goms27: posts big blind 600

One lap of button is costing 1350 and I have 9000. I am not under ANY pressure to play a hand.

I am the big blind.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Goms27 [Jc Ah]

Good big blind cards. Not a great NL hand, but I am happy enough.

TroyLay: folds
PLH22: calls 600
pwrhtter: folds
yodajedi: folds
BoardCloud9: folds
chsthird: folds
GY57: calls 300
Goms27: raises 3000 to 3600

I probably do not make this raise here. Not a bad hand, but the problem is that you will HATE to get called when you hold A-J. I prefer making this big steal bet with a hand like 9-7s where my hits are probably not the enemies hits.

But, it's not a bad play since you figure to take the pot down right now and if you don't, you have outs.

PLH22: calls 3000

Roh-oh. A caller. I will put him on an "implied odds hand" like a small/medium pocket pair or suited connectors.

GY57: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d Jd 5d]

Ugh. Really difficult flop. I *probably* have the best hand, but if I don't then I am drawing virtually dead. I check.

Goms27: bets 5372 and is all-in

Not a bad play, but not the one I prefer. What can call you? He will call with a set. He might call with top pair. And, he might call with a BIG diamond. He will also call with a flush. I figure that if he calls then you are a 2-1 favourite (he is calling on a diamond draw) OR you are drawing dead. That is the problem with the position you find yourself in ... he has a reasonable draw which will be getting the right odds to call OR you are drawing very thin. I favour checking and probably calling if he sets you in.

PLH22: calls 5372
*** TURN *** [3d Jd 5d] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [3d Jd 5d 2s] [Ts]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Goms27: shows [Jc Ah] (a pair of Jacks)
PLH22: shows [9d Qd] (a flush, Queen high)
PLH22 collected 18944 from pot

Tough hand.

In retrospect, the problem starts when you raise pre-flop since you create a pot that is too big to control or get away from. On the other hand, you got your opponent to call $3000 when he was almost a 2-1 dog. On the other other hand, when he called you he had position on you.

Now... to read the other answers.

Goms27

Dave Scharf wrote:

The only thing worse than losing is not being in the action at all. It wasn't wasted!.

Very good point - it is amazing how easy it is to forget that right after I was done playing!

Dave Scharf wrote:

I probably do not make this raise here. Not a bad hand, but the problem is that you will HATE to get called when you hold A-J. I prefer making this big steal bet with a hand like 9-7s where my hits are probably not the enemies hits.

I think you have taught me a very valuable lesson here. Here was my train of thought and please let me know if I am out to lunch. I am raising with AJ in this situation in thinking that if I get called I still have a decent hand and have some respectable outs. I would have never thought of stealing with 9-7s. When playing 97s and do not hit the flop do you check and fold if the other player comes back at you? I do not think I am capable of playing this hand as I have yet to do it at this point in time. Does this make me a rock?


Thanks everyone for replying - always great to learn.