The way he hesitated before calling the preflop raise just made me think he didn't have much...and that flop...what hands has he hit there that he calls the preflop raise oop vs. utg nit with? JJ and 99? Unless he has either of those hands, or AA/KK (-edit- I think these are out of the range...which I think he reraises pre) he has to fold to a jam on the flop, no? If he has AK, he folds to my jam, if he has 1010, he folds...88 he folds..maybe he had the same hand?
My thinking at the time was call this and jam if he checks the turn..
My final hand still has me thinking... Blinds were 4k/8k +ante, I started with 97k in the SB. K7o. Folds around to HJ or CO and min raise to 16k, button calls 16k, (both are bigger stacks, 250k+) I jammed here thinking that I would only be against one of them, and full well knowing one would call, likely the button as the original raiser doesn't know what the button is gonna do..and he can be plenty wide enough here, with the dead money, that I can jam with my K7....Am I out to lunch?
.and he can be plenty wide enough here, with the dead money, that I can jam with my K7....Am I out to lunch?
you posted 2 hands like this today...if your going to look for spots like this i think that its likely you need your hand to be at least suited....try and make plays with suited hands...that extra few percent goes along way vs any calling range the opp shows up with...
an offsuit 3bet bluff is not worth waiting for a spot to open shove first in i don't think..
you posted 2 hands like this today...if your going to look for spots like this i think that its likely you need your hand to be at least suited....try and make plays with suited hands...that extra few percent goes along way vs any calling range the opp shows up with...
an offsuit 3bet bluff is not worth waiting for a spot to open shove first in i don't think..
What was my other hand? lol Thought I only posted this 3bet? And it wasn't really a bluff, I knew I was getting called...just thought (at the time, still maybe??) with the dead money in, and his range being wide enough, that I may as well get my 10bb's in now..
Against a range like QQ-77,A4s+,K9s+,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,A9o+,KJo+ I have 34%. Antes of 9k blinds of 12k plus 32000 in the pot..preflop pot of 53k, it's over 50% of my stack in the pot before I shove..how much equity do I really need?
Against a range like QQ-77,A4s+,K9s+,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,A9o+,KJo+ I have 34%. Antes of 9k blinds of 12k plus 32000 in the pot..preflop pot of 53k, it's over 50% of my stack in the pot before I shove..how much equity do I really need?
just under 40%?
the other hand wasn't a 3 bet bluff...just remember thinking id rather be soooted....
the other hand wasn't a 3 bet bluff...just remember thinking id rather be soooted....
lol..yeah yeah....I like soooted too. Seriously though..just a bad read with that other hand. I think I take too many chances heads up. Once I get heads up more, I will work on that
Edit. Just busted 14th in the $10k GTD. Getting closer.
I don't know how you guys get so far in so many tournaments.
Full Tilt Poker Game #31276336924: $5,500 Guarantee (242648623), Table 1 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 02:52:32 ET - 2011/06/27
Seat 1: STUCKS (8,225)
Seat 2: qwert31 (10,678)
Seat 3: romassik (4,476)
Seat 4: dufferdevon (8,882)
Seat 5: hawkins33 (7,110)
Seat 6: Porntraktr (15,186)
Seat 7: xatarr (16,271)
Seat 8: franbi (12,616)
qwert31 posts the small blind of 80
romassik posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dufferdevon [As Ah]
dufferdevon raises to 400
hawkins33 calls 400
Porntraktr has 15 seconds left to act
Porntraktr folds
xatarr folds
franbi has 15 seconds left to act
franbi raises to 1,760
STUCKS folds
qwert31 folds
romassik folds
dufferdevon raises to 8,882, and is all in
hawkins33 folds
franbi calls 7,122
dufferdevon shows [As Ah]
franbi shows [Kh Ks]
*** FLOP *** [Kd 2s 6h]
*** TURN *** [Kd 2s 6h] [9c]
*** RIVER *** [Kd 2s 6h 9c] [Qd]
dufferdevon shows a pair of Aces
franbi shows three of a kind, Kings
franbi wins the pot (18,404) with three of a kind, Kings
The way he hesitated before calling the preflop raise just made me think he didn't have much...and that flop...what hands has he hit there that he calls the preflop raise oop vs. utg nit with? JJ and 99? Unless he has either of those hands, or AA/KK (-edit- I think these are out of the range...which I think he reraises pre) he has to fold to a jam on the flop, no? If he has AK, he folds to my jam, if he has 1010, he folds...88 he folds..maybe he had the same hand?
My thinking at the time was call this and jam if he checks the turn..
My final hand still has me thinking... Blinds were 4k/8k +ante, I started with 97k in the SB. K7o. Folds around to HJ or CO and min raise to 16k, button calls 16k, (both are bigger stacks, 250k+) I jammed here thinking that I would only be against one of them, and full well knowing one would call, likely the button as the original raiser doesn't know what the button is gonna do..and he can be plenty wide enough here, with the dead money, that I can jam with my K7....Am I out to lunch?
Not out to lunch, I think some assumptions are def optimistic tho. He doesn't really need a hand as strong as JJ or 99, donks overplay top pair no kicker all of the time, but if we take a hand that's about the bottom of our range (not our pre-flop raising range, but A-high is obviously near the bottom of our range post flop) and start continuing with it, it actually makes it correct for him to check-raise his JT type hands here since we're continuing with so many worse hands. Without a very strong read it is fine to just c-bet/fold here, you don't have to win every pot that you open, especially when your hand has little to do with the board. Also you describe yourself as an UTG nit. This read is only relevant if he has this read as well. We can't really think "what hands is he playing vs. me knowing that I'm so nitty" when he might not actually know that. Maybe he's watching TV or talking to people and not even paying attention. It's a big mistake to factor in our perceived range/image if we are not even sure that the villain perceives at all.
For the last hand, that's definitely spew. I can't really remember the last time I reshipped K7o, let alone so short with another caller. When you are shoving a hand that's behind their calling range, you need fold equity in order to make up for the chips you lose when you get called. If you expect them never to called, where is the profit coming from? You estimate there to be around 36k dead money in the pot (either the raiser or caller for 16k, and the blinds + antes for ~20k), yet when you get called you have around 30% equity, meaning if you're risking 97k to win the pot, there needs to be ~100k dead money, not 36k (assuming you have no FE, if you're a 2:1 equity, you need to be getting 2:1 with the dead money). So yea, hopefully you can see that although it seems like a good spot to reship, you actually need a muuuch better spot in order for K7o to be a reship, one that basically doesn't exist in online tournaments (super loose opening + super tight calling don't usually go hand in hand when you can click button and gamboool).
Not out to lunch, I think some assumptions are def optimistic tho. He doesn't really need a hand as strong as JJ or 99, donks overplay top pair no kicker all of the time, but if we take a hand that's about the bottom of our range (not our pre-flop raising range, but A-high is obviously near the bottom of our range post flop) and start continuing with it, it actually makes it correct for him to check-raise his JT type hands here since we're continuing with so many worse hands. Without a very strong read it is fine to just c-bet/fold here, you don't have to win every pot that you open, especially when your hand has little to do with the board. Also you describe yourself as an UTG nit. This read is only relevant if he has this read as well. We can't really think "what hands is he playing vs. me knowing that I'm so nitty" when he might not actually know that. Maybe he's watching TV or talking to people and not even paying attention. It's a big mistake to factor in our perceived range/image if we are not even sure that the villain perceives at all.
For the last hand, that's definitely spew. I can't really remember the last time I reshipped K7o, let alone so short with another caller. When you are shoving a hand that's behind their calling range, you need fold equity in order to make up for the chips you lose when you get called. If you expect them never to called, where is the profit coming from? You estimate there to be around 36k dead money in the pot (either the raiser or caller for 16k, and the blinds + antes for ~20k), yet when you get called you have around 30% equity, meaning if you're risking 97k to win the pot, there needs to be ~100k dead money, not 36k (assuming you have no FE, if you're a 2:1 equity, you need to be getting 2:1 with the dead money). So yea, hopefully you can see that although it seems like a good spot to reship, you actually need a muuuch better spot in order for K7o to be a reship, one that basically doesn't exist in online tournaments (super loose opening + super tight calling don't usually go hand in hand when you can click button and gamboool).
This puts things more in perspective. Less tuna for me.^-^
Comments
The way he hesitated before calling the preflop raise just made me think he didn't have much...and that flop...what hands has he hit there that he calls the preflop raise oop vs. utg nit with? JJ and 99? Unless he has either of those hands, or AA/KK (-edit- I think these are out of the range...which I think he reraises pre) he has to fold to a jam on the flop, no? If he has AK, he folds to my jam, if he has 1010, he folds...88 he folds..maybe he had the same hand?
My thinking at the time was call this and jam if he checks the turn..
My final hand still has me thinking... Blinds were 4k/8k +ante, I started with 97k in the SB. K7o. Folds around to HJ or CO and min raise to 16k, button calls 16k, (both are bigger stacks, 250k+) I jammed here thinking that I would only be against one of them, and full well knowing one would call, likely the button as the original raiser doesn't know what the button is gonna do..and he can be plenty wide enough here, with the dead money, that I can jam with my K7....Am I out to lunch?
I have been busting out 20-30th in my last few tournies.
Is there some sort of strategy change I should be making for these stages ?
an offsuit 3bet bluff is not worth waiting for a spot to open shove first in i don't think..
yup, run better
What was my other hand? lol Thought I only posted this 3bet? And it wasn't really a bluff, I knew I was getting called...just thought (at the time, still maybe??) with the dead money in, and his range being wide enough, that I may as well get my 10bb's in now..
Against a range like QQ-77,A4s+,K9s+,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,A9o+,KJo+ I have 34%. Antes of 9k blinds of 12k plus 32000 in the pot..preflop pot of 53k, it's over 50% of my stack in the pot before I shove..how much equity do I really need?
oh...are you referring to that live hand from yesterday? I didn't expect a call whatsoever..lol I thought I had a read, cards didn't matter.. :P
the other hand wasn't a 3 bet bluff...just remember thinking id rather be soooted....
Duly noted.
Edit. Just busted 14th in the $10k GTD. Getting closer.
lol..yeah yeah....I like soooted too. Seriously though..just a bad read with that other hand. I think I take too many chances heads up. Once I get heads up more, I will work on that
I don't know how you guys get so far in so many tournaments.
Full Tilt Poker Game #31276336924: $5,500 Guarantee (242648623), Table 1 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 02:52:32 ET - 2011/06/27
Seat 1: STUCKS (8,225)
Seat 2: qwert31 (10,678)
Seat 3: romassik (4,476)
Seat 4: dufferdevon (8,882)
Seat 5: hawkins33 (7,110)
Seat 6: Porntraktr (15,186)
Seat 7: xatarr (16,271)
Seat 8: franbi (12,616)
qwert31 posts the small blind of 80
romassik posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dufferdevon [As Ah]
dufferdevon raises to 400
hawkins33 calls 400
Porntraktr has 15 seconds left to act
Porntraktr folds
xatarr folds
franbi has 15 seconds left to act
franbi raises to 1,760
STUCKS folds
qwert31 folds
romassik folds
dufferdevon raises to 8,882, and is all in
hawkins33 folds
franbi calls 7,122
dufferdevon shows [As Ah]
franbi shows [Kh Ks]
*** FLOP *** [Kd 2s 6h]
*** TURN *** [Kd 2s 6h] [9c]
*** RIVER *** [Kd 2s 6h 9c] [Qd]
dufferdevon shows a pair of Aces
franbi shows three of a kind, Kings
franbi wins the pot (18,404) with three of a kind, Kings
Not out to lunch, I think some assumptions are def optimistic tho. He doesn't really need a hand as strong as JJ or 99, donks overplay top pair no kicker all of the time, but if we take a hand that's about the bottom of our range (not our pre-flop raising range, but A-high is obviously near the bottom of our range post flop) and start continuing with it, it actually makes it correct for him to check-raise his JT type hands here since we're continuing with so many worse hands. Without a very strong read it is fine to just c-bet/fold here, you don't have to win every pot that you open, especially when your hand has little to do with the board. Also you describe yourself as an UTG nit. This read is only relevant if he has this read as well. We can't really think "what hands is he playing vs. me knowing that I'm so nitty" when he might not actually know that. Maybe he's watching TV or talking to people and not even paying attention. It's a big mistake to factor in our perceived range/image if we are not even sure that the villain perceives at all.
For the last hand, that's definitely spew. I can't really remember the last time I reshipped K7o, let alone so short with another caller. When you are shoving a hand that's behind their calling range, you need fold equity in order to make up for the chips you lose when you get called. If you expect them never to called, where is the profit coming from? You estimate there to be around 36k dead money in the pot (either the raiser or caller for 16k, and the blinds + antes for ~20k), yet when you get called you have around 30% equity, meaning if you're risking 97k to win the pot, there needs to be ~100k dead money, not 36k (assuming you have no FE, if you're a 2:1 equity, you need to be getting 2:1 with the dead money). So yea, hopefully you can see that although it seems like a good spot to reship, you actually need a muuuch better spot in order for K7o to be a reship, one that basically doesn't exist in online tournaments (super loose opening + super tight calling don't usually go hand in hand when you can click button and gamboool).
This puts things more in perspective. Less tuna for me.^-^