big stack play
I was in a NL tourney a couple days ago and became one of the chip leaders well into the tournament with around 28000 chips. The blinds were 500-1000 when I got J-J in late position. The next biggest stack at my table had around 16000 and made it 8000 to go before it got to me. This guy was new to the table so I didn't really know much about him. Normally with jacks I like to reraise and see how serious my opponent is, but this guy really didn't give me that opportunity. His raise was so big that I would have to put him all in to reraise. Like I said this was a big raise so I felt it was less likely he had a monster so I decided to put him all in. Turns out the opposite was true as he had aces and I lose 16000.
So, obviously I bungled this up. Should I have assumed he had a monster to risk half of his stack? Should I just not have tangled with a guy with so many chips at this point? What hands would you be willing to take this guy on with? Only aces? What do you do when you're in great shape, you get a nice hand but a guy with nearly as many chips as you (or at least a guy who can take a nice chunk out of you) makes a big move into you?
So, obviously I bungled this up. Should I have assumed he had a monster to risk half of his stack? Should I just not have tangled with a guy with so many chips at this point? What hands would you be willing to take this guy on with? Only aces? What do you do when you're in great shape, you get a nice hand but a guy with nearly as many chips as you (or at least a guy who can take a nice chunk out of you) makes a big move into you?
Comments
I should start by saying JJ is my most hated of all PP (I actually put JJ in the same category as AJ), just big enough to look nice and want to play.
I generally will call a raise with JJ, and hope for a good flop. If I see any higher paint or an Ace, I fold them down against an opponent I know. Against unknown opponents I actually fold JJ pre-flop to a big raise (more than 25% of my stack). I would actually rather play JT then JJ sometimes, JT is easier to get away from.
Now onto last nights tourney (note we are a hour out of the rebuy part and I am up to about 10K in chips). Same deal new player (arrived 1 hand earlier) UTG (12K) Raises 4x the BB (200/400 Blinds), and I have JJ on the button. One player (MP about 7k) cold calls the raise and I call, SB,BB fold. Flop is T9K rainbow, the raiser goes all-in, and is called buy the MP. Now I know with about 80% accuaracy that I have MP beat (hey loves to call all-in on draws, and has been getting a little lucky), however not kowing anything about the UTG causes me to pause.
Eventually I decide to fold, UTG has QT and the MP has J8 soooted. The tens hold up. If I had know the UTG player a little better I might have called but I wasn't willing to go out on a pair of Jacks at that point with a King on board.
(edits for spelling)
Since when does AQ or AK beat JJ?
Since you decided that you are one of the better players in the tournament who doesn't like putting in a major portion of your stack in a slim +EV spot?
As for the original question, JJ is probably the close decision point for me, but I'd lean towards folding. I'd certainly raise in that spot with AA, KK, QQ. I'd most often fold TT and below. The JJ is the tricky case I think.
Too bad the player is new. A player read is *huge* in this kind of spot. I'm capable of folding QQ (though it's rare that I give a player this much respect) or playing TT or AK if I know a little something about the player if the situation is otherwise the same.
This is another great example of successfully overbetting Aces. I often advocate overbetting AA pre-flop because of the deception value (i.e. the "doesn't look like he wants a call" effect), even though (for hands other than AA) I'm a firm believer in standard raise sizes in NL.
ScottyZ
Wait find better spots, eat up the short stacks and don't tangle with the other big stack when he raises you (unless he's a maniac) ... with anything less than two cowboys or a pair of bullets.
12 players left 20$ buy in freezeout.Smart guy playing real loose getting some folds then does this..
Would you have called in 2nd place 12 players left 8 make money?
I have played him lots and have him tagged as terrible,cant believe he's even this far in the tourney
Another hand to follow...
06:30pm NLHE $20-4 - Holdem - NL 0 - Real Money - Hand #55843279
**Hand #55843279 begins**
The Silencer receives the dealer button
big guns posts small blind 250
Firestopper posts big blind 500
You are dealt[Js,Jc]
BoxcarWille folds
twinkdog44 folds
Fusone folds
The Silencer goes all in 0
The Silencer raises 3949
big guns folds
Firestopper calls 3449
Flop is dealt [7d,5c,Ad]
Turn is dealt [Qh]
River is dealt [Th]
Firestopper shows a pair of Jacks
Firestopper's pocket cards were [Js,Jc]
The Silencer shows a pair of Aces
The Silencer's pocket cards were [Ac,4d]
The Silencer wins $8148 play money from main pot
**Hand #55843279 ends**
I know that if I am sitting there I am thinking "That bet does NOT want to get called." I am tempted to call him (good point from ScottyZ because you will suck me in with an overbet). I probably don't re-raise since I am assuming that he will call (getting 3-1). He is making the right call no matter what he has. I am interested in seeing the flop and then deciding how to proceed. If the flop had been all below my jacks he probably gets more of my money.
Is this ideal? No. I am working more on folding on situations like this. (1) His bet to too big for you to take the initiative. You will be calling instead of betting. (2) You have lots of ammunition and you don't want to lose a bunch in a marginal hand. J-J here is marginal.
Classic case of "easy to see looking back."