yay or nay?

Unknown

Poker Stars, $2.50 + $0.25 NL Hold'em Tournament, 400/800 Blinds, 75 Ante, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: 23,348
Yodabatman (SB): 28,877
BB: 12,584
UTG: 4,975
UTG+1: 14,306
UTG+2: 18,538
MP1: 30,805
MP2: 36,054
CO: 7,581

Pre-Flop: (1,875) A Q dealt to Yodabatman (SB)
4 folds, MP2 raises to 2,400, 2 folds, Yodabatman raises to 5,200, BB folds, MP2 calls 2,800

Flop: (11,875) T 2 T (2 Players)
Yodabatman bets 5,600, MP2 raises to 30,779 and is All-In, Yodabatman folds

Results: 23,075 Pot
MP2 showed and WON 23,075 (+12,275 NET)

getem76

everything not AJ is crushing your range here id think and unless you know hes going to stack off with AJ...its a good enough escape you continuation bet it didnt work out, so be it

sump

flat pre. AQo is not worth 3 betting if we are going to fold to a 4-bet esp OOP. I like flatting here and seeing a flop and then possibly even taking the lead on this flop or check raising based on reads and table dynamics. Because your lead is so weak it seems more like AK than AA/KK/QQ and he could be playing back with a hand like 88-JJ, ATo+, 9Ts+ because there is value in calling the small 3-bet with SC's in position.

Richard~

I probably fold as played, but I definitely 3 bet bigger OOP

Flatting or folding are also viable options pre depending on villain I guess

DrTyore

If you're going to re-raise, re-raise more.

You gave him a call of 2800 into a pot of 9475 - 3.4 to one pot odds. He was actually playing correctly if he had AJ - make them make bigger mistakes. Your re-pop here should have been more in the 7500 range.

Mark

betrthanphil

Disagree with all these bums!! 3 bet is perfect size!!!!. the way I 3 bet is I make it around 2x his raise. He raised to 2400 which is 1600 raise. so 2x is would be 3200 to 5600. I usually raise a little less. In earlier stages I go more towards 3x his raise, or if there is a caller I go towards 3x a raise. He is being put in a terrible spot by calling our raise, Its not at all profitable for him. This is how I pick up so many chips 3 bet small lead flop they almost always snap fold. But on the flop I like to induce moves, so id probably bet around 4000-5000 range. probably 4567 here lol. Depending on my mood and what Ive seen of villian I might call it off here. I understand both sides, but a very dry board all we are afraid of really is a pair like 55-99. Which is usually determined pre. How quick did he call your 3 bet. Because if he snapped it, it means he didnt have a hand to even think about 4 betting with. Which might suggest suited connectors of some sort and because we dont have the Ad, he could easily have an Ad hand which if he does with the money in the pot we are getting good odds to try to hold against a flush draw.

DrTyore

betrthanphil wrote: »

Disagree with all these bums!! 3 bet is perfect size!!!!. the way I 3 bet is I make it around 2x his raise. He raised to 2400 which is 1600 raise. so 2x is would be 3200 to 5600. I usually raise a little less. In earlier stages I go more towards 3x his raise, or if there is a caller I go towards 3x a raise. He is being put in a terrible spot by calling our raise, Its not at all profitable for him. This is how I pick up so many chips 3 bet small lead flop they almost always snap fold. But on the flop I like to induce moves, so id probably bet around 4000-5000 range. probably 4567 here lol. Depending on my mood and what Ive seen of villian I might call it off here. I understand both sides, but a very dry board all we are afraid of really is a pair like 55-99. Which is usually determined pre. How quick did he call your 3 bet. Because if he snapped it, it means he didnt have a hand to even think about 4 betting with. Which might suggest suited connectors of some sort and because we dont have the Ad, he could easily have an Ad hand which if he does with the money in the pot we are getting good odds to try to hold against a flush draw.

So...

Your suggestion is to give him odds to call and make money with inferior hands?

Mark

betrthanphil

Im suggesting letting a guy hang himself. what do you suggest, chase away action. what you gonna do when you have AA chase away your action too? Or merge your hands and win big pots cheapest as possible. Same play will work with 54, thats why its so profitable, if he raises more hes gonna be reluctant to make a this move as a bluff because it will cost him more of his stack. What do you wanna raise to pre. then bet flop? 28k he raise to 6500 pot is up to 14000 and you now have 21500 left, whats gonna be your cbet on the flop that doesnt commit you. By raising more you actually giving him better implied odds as anything you bet on the flop is gonna commit you.
Your turn....go!

Richard~

You can just stop worrying about balancing anything in a 2 dollar tournament. vs a guy who's shown his incompetence by opening 3x you'll be spewing by 3betting anything else than a correct range. Do you even know how much spazzing out is going on at this level? I've seen over and over again guys flatting the cbet with hands like 68 just to see if they can hit anything lol. Saying "I'm gonna cbet fold comfortably on this flop" isn't really healthy most of the time

My approach is to 3et a strong range and put in a few more chips to discourage calls as well as make it more ok for me to betcall a wider range of flops

Edit: Your approach is obviously great vs players who you don't expect to spazz out as frequently and can for sure be used in the micros as well vs a lot of players but I would need a couple of orbits before I try it on a random

sump

betrthanphil wrote: »

Disagree with all these bums!! 3 bet is perfect size!!!!. the way I 3 bet is I make it around 2x his raise. He raised to 2400 which is 1600 raise. so 2x is would be 3200 to 5600. I usually raise a little less. In earlier stages I go more towards 3x his raise, or if there is a caller I go towards 3x a raise. He is being put in a terrible spot by calling our raise, Its not at all profitable for him. This is how I pick up so many chips 3 bet small lead flop they almost always snap fold. But on the flop I like to induce moves, so id probably bet around 4000-5000 range. probably 4567 here lol. Depending on my mood and what Ive seen of villian I might call it off here. I understand both sides, but a very dry board all we are afraid of really is a pair like 55-99. Which is usually determined pre. How quick did he call your 3 bet. Because if he snapped it, it means he didnt have a hand to even think about 4 betting with. Which might suggest suited connectors of some sort and because we dont have the Ad, he could easily have an Ad hand which if he does with the money in the pot we are getting good odds to try to hold against a flush draw.

Keep playing AQo OOP like that

I love the end line which I have put in bold.

Do you coach?

Vekked

I think it's fine, I c-bet smaller on the flop. Agree with people advocating a bigger 3-bet being bums :P.

Sump, what stakes do you play? Im guessing you should probably sit back and listen instead of insulting a really good highstakes player judging by your posts thus far.

Vekked

DrTyore wrote: »

So...

Your suggestion is to give him odds to call and make money with inferior hands?

Mark

I'd say te chances that he is playing correctly vs. our 3-bet here is like... 2% at this level. Yes some % of his range may be profitable to call depending on how good he is post flop, but he's also calling with a ton of hands we dominate, or not folding 87s Q8x boards because he puts us on AK. Even vs. someone good it should be fine overall, we're making him call 10% of effective stacks with a low stack to pot ratio, it can't be great unless he's really good and has a really good grasp of our range, the range he should be continuing with, and how to play that range vs. our range given stack on various flops. It's not like this guy is going to be floating us with backdoor draws and bluff raising turns when he should be, he probably just has it here.

sump

Vekked wrote: »

I think it's fine, I c-bet smaller on the flop. Agree with people advocating a bigger 3-bet being bums :P.

Sump, what stakes do you play? Im guessing you should probably sit back and listen instead of insulting a really good highstakes player judging by your posts thus far.

I was actually one of the people who said 3-betting wasn't a good idea OOP because AQo can be a lot of trouble.

I play $20+NL tournaments but very rarely because i think i would rather play craps because i think my edge in craps is much larger than online tournaments lol. Probably not quite as high as you guys do.
I play PLO100 as my main game and I am adequately rolled for it.

I am not trying to berate anyone but the fact that i was called a bum kind of made me react in a poor way.

betrthanphil

calling is aweful :P

Unknown

betrthanphil wrote: »

How quick did he call your 3 bet. Because if he snapped it, it means he didnt have a hand to even think about 4 betting with. Which might suggest suited connectors of some sort

...hold on, im updating my notes.

betrthanphil wrote: »

because we dont have the Ad, he could easily have an Ad hand which if he does with the money in the pot we are getting good odds to try to hold against a flush draw.

ya and i was gonna bring up that he could have ak with a diamond but i forgot that he can have aj with d.....

but i guess his air doesn't do this...he doesn't pure bluff much and theres a little suited conectors like kq diamons or something. i don't feel like pairs shove on me soo often (22-88)

but it wasn't just the ranges i think this is a clear fold ( i think) but i didn't feel right losing those chips....

Unknown

Vekked wrote: »

Agree with people advocating a bigger 3-bet being bums :P..

Meanie.

Vekked wrote: »

I c-bet smaller on the flop.

i think thats because you play higher limits (not sure it is though).

i think his range is slightly elastic here, and hell flat hands like mid pairs if i bet less than half the pot. I am in fact semibluffing here but i want it to look like im scared aces ready to call an all in or jam the turn. but im def trying to risk the minimum here that i think will fold out hands that missed



So in general youre saying i should just start shoving my chips in the pot and shoving my chips in the pot ???

Unknown

sump wrote: »

flat pre.

i would love to, but then the bb will flat pre too and ill ruin a good chane to take down a pot. i can't rely on aqo 3 way oop. but i can build a little pot and look for fold equity and use aqo as backup.

off course if i hit, everything changes.

Unknown

DrTyore wrote: »

So...

Your suggestion is to give him odds to call and make money with inferior hands?

Mark

Vekked wrote: »

Even vs. someone good it should be fine overall, we're making him call 10% of effective stacks with a low stack to pot ratio, it can't be great unless he's really good and has a really good grasp of our range, the range he should be continuing with, and how to play that range vs. our range given stack on various flops.

ya and the assumption is he doesn't, and i do realize i give him incredible odds, but i fully believe the mistake there will pay for itself post flop

Vekked wrote: »

It's not like this guy is going to be floating us with backdoor draws and bluff raising turns when he should be, he probably just has it here.

no, however he is still floating alot and folding to a 2nd barrel especially if the barrel is big enough, but my plan here is more to rep aces and give up because he plays jj+ the same way and i have no fold equity here or on any non ace turn.

Unknown

betrthanphil wrote: »

calling is aweful :P

lol trouble maker!!!

Unknown

Richard~ wrote: »

You can just stop worrying about balancing anything in a 2 dollar tournament. vs a guy who's shown his incompetence by opening 3x you'll be spewing by 3betting anything else than a correct range.

one day i will understand you and it will be awesome