Wwyd

Cerberus

PokerStars Game #61711857674: Tournament #419010384, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2011/05/05 12:17:45 ET
Table '419010384 30' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: enejus2000 (4840 in chips)
Seat 2: leshenka (4980 in chips)
Seat 4: BimperBoy (5000 in chips)
Seat 5: bjdenhertog (5000 in chips)
Seat 6: kamikadze625 (5000 in chips)
Seat 7: icemansen (5000 in chips)
Seat 8: eisbär1976 (5000 in chips)
Seat 9: McAusland (5000 in chips)
BimperBoy: posts small blind 10
bjdenhertog: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to McAusland
kamikadze625: folds
icemansen: folds
eisbär1976: folds
McAusland: raises 40 to 60
enejus2000: folds
leshenka: calls 60
BimperBoy: folds
bjdenhertog: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [Ks 4s 6h]
bjdenhertog: checks
McAusland: bets 120
leshenka: folds
bjdenhertog: calls 120
*** TURN *** [Ks 4s 6h] [Jh]
bjdenhertog: bets 320
djanromeo is connected
McAusland: calls 320
*** RIVER *** [Ks 4s 6h Jh] [As]
bjdenhertog: bets 4500 and is all-in
McAusland: ...?

This is my 1st hand in the tourney (reg'd 2 minutes late) so no reads. His call on the flop, bet on the turn and shove on the river were each faster than the previous play. Is this how he's playing a flush draw? A set? Two pair? Air? Very confusing and just not sure what to think.

So, what would you do?

compuease

If he was on a flush draw, what was it that he called you on the flop and bet the turn with.. Then he pushes the river? I don't think so, more importantly, with your line what do you think he put you on? A King? I think he has 2 pair or a set. You have to call and move on if he has the flush... My thinking anyways...

Shtebs

compuease wrote: »

If he was on a flush draw, what was it that he called you on the flop and bet the turn with.. Then he pushes the river? I don't think so, more importantly, with your line what do you think he put you on? A King? I think he has 2 pair or a set. You have to call and move on if he has the flush... My thinking anyways...

I second Comp's thoughts. if he chased down the obvious flush why insta shove just to not be called? The only reason he might take this line is if he was trying to disguise his bet as a bluff to entice a two pair or set to call but he hasn't played with you long either and has no reads so this kind of play wouldn't make sense. If he caught the flush he should have bet a callable amount to get value. Therefore, my read is he has something like second pair and is trying to push you off a possible K with his bluff. I make the call.

moose

I don't raise Q10 1st hand of the tourney with no reads. The hand plays out really easy after that.

moose

Also you don't have odds to call on turn. Never mind the double suited board. That means 1/2 the deck you don't like on river - before you called the turn you should have already known what you were going to do on river so there so should have been no decision to make on river card. This hand is full of fail.

ReefAquarium

Cerberus wrote: »

PokerStars Game #61711857674: Tournament #419010384, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2011/05/05 12:17:45 ET
Table '419010384 30' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: enejus2000 (4840 in chips)
Seat 2: leshenka (4980 in chips)
Seat 4: BimperBoy (5000 in chips)
Seat 5: bjdenhertog (5000 in chips)
Seat 6: kamikadze625 (5000 in chips)
Seat 7: icemansen (5000 in chips)
Seat 8: eisbär1976 (5000 in chips)
Seat 9: McAusland (5000 in chips)
BimperBoy: posts small blind 10
bjdenhertog: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to McAusland
kamikadze625: folds
icemansen: folds
eisbär1976: folds
McAusland: raises 40 to 60

Fold

What's do you open in middle position with?

enejus2000: folds
leshenka: calls 60
BimperBoy: folds
bjdenhertog: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [Ks 4s 6h]
bjdenhertog: checks
McAusland: bets 120

You c bet with no pair no draw no overcard into 2 people?

leshenka: folds
bjdenhertog: calls 120
*** TURN *** [Ks 4s 6h] [Jh]
bjdenhertog: bets 320
djanromeo is connected
McAusland: calls 320

Double paired board, Why are you calling here?

*** RIVER *** [Ks 4s 6h Jh] [As]
bjdenhertog: bets 4500 and is all-in
McAusland: ...?

This is my 1st hand in the tourney (reg'd 2 minutes late) so no reads. His call on the flop, bet on the turn and shove on the river were each faster than the previous play. Is this how he's playing a flush draw? A set? Two pair? Air? Very confusing and just not sure what to think.

So, what would you do?

I don't think you're asking the right questions.

Wetts1012

Cerberus wrote: »

So, what would you do?

I agree with most everyone here.

Fold pre. Theres just no need for it.

Thought about it more, Im folding. Whatever. Its the first hand and Ive got little invested. If he bluffs, good for him, hes a hero.

Milo

HOLY FUCK BALLS !!! I agreed with Wetts. My first thought was, "why the hell are you raising pre with Q/10o? There might be hope yet.

Richard~

Meh, I like the open, I like the cbet and I could probably barrel the turn myself otherwise I'm on the fence about calling. River is a fold imo

betrthanphil

open is horrible for exactly the reason your asking what to do on the river. Early on you cant put your opponents on hands as you have no reads and this could just be some donk who shoves with a wide range of hands. Really unless we flop the nuts we arent gonna feel great about playing a big pot with q10os. just my opinion anyways

Milo

Richard~ wrote: »

Meh, I like the open, I like the cbet and I could probably barrel the turn myself otherwise I'm on the fence about calling. River is a fold imo

Discounted for being a Euro-player . . . I mean, you folks think 6-5 suited is the nutz, right?

compuease

Milo wrote: »

Discounted for being a Euro-player . . . I mean, you folks think 6-5 suited is the nutz, right?

nope, it's 7,8

Wetts1012

Richard~ wrote: »

Meh, I like the open, I like the cbet and I could probably barrel the turn myself otherwise I'm on the fence about calling. River is a fold imo

I just dont see alot of value this early. It really cant be good the first hand.

Discuss......

Unknown

i have a matrix im experimenting with for overbet shoves on the river.

If the players opr is high and your range to him should seem like you will fold then its likely a bluff

If the players opr is high and your range to him should seem you will call then its a value bet

If the players opr is low and your range seems like you will fold then its a value bet

If the players opr is low and your range seems like you will call then its a bluff.....


but nonetheless your very likely way to wide pre from all positions and your continuation bet frequency vs certain boards. when you tighten up alot, continuation betting gets fun and easy.

i feel like rich read the hand history wrong.......

Cerberus

Thank you all for the excellent information/advice. I really felt like I played this terribly. At least my read on myself was right.

I don`t have the rest of the hand history on me, but I thought about it for about 20 seconds and decided his shove made no sense at all and the most he had was two pair and called. He had 1010 and I busted him out.

While I'm glad with the result, I'm more interested in not getting myself into that situation in the first place so that page is being removed from the playbook

philliivey

compuease wrote: »

nope, it's 7,8

Comp is correct!


Don't diss this hand to euro's or you may get hurt!,lolololol:D

Richard~

There's not a lot of value in opening but it's not -EV either. We have 250 BB's, we can open whatever we feel like really.

I'm not saying the open has a lot of value, I'm not even saying that the cbet has a lot of value, but if our plan is to cbet the right flops and otherwise try to realise the value of our hand and size the pot accordingly I don't think we have to avoid spots just cause villains aren't predictable, just get in there and exploit whatever you can imo