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Casino RAMA
I am planning to spend a weekend up at Casino Rama playing poker . Does anyone have experience playing there in their lower limit games? If so, plesae share some of your experiences.
Comments
those are the limits i tried
I think the toughest thing for me is that it's an 11 handed game, instead of a ten. From the Theory of Poker, the smaller the blinds the tighter you need to become. It goes against all intuition while you're in the game, because it's an extremely loose passive game (up to 5/10) and you have odds to call/raise in sooooo many spots.
But, I trully think tightness is required for the game. It'll be boring, but if you want profit, it might be the way to go. However, I'm not sure because I haven't been able to tighten down my game and/or win there. Hmmmm...., I think there's a correlation.
Some things to look out for. The conservative middle age woman bets into a field of 6 players -- at minimum she's got two pair. The asian who limped in, and raised the turn when the queen hit -- he's extremely likely to have AQ or QQ. Any turn raise, and you're likely looking at a minimum of a set -- two pair will call you down. Hey, it's alot like low limit play online -- only if you can believe it, more passive and looser (calling raises pre-flop).
Good Luck
Magi
Except that Theory of Poker wasn't written with Small Loose games in mind. Using it's strategy in those games is a money loser. SSH is the bible for these games.
Also,
What does intuition have to do with pot odds? If you have the odds to call/raise, theres no intuition involved.
I agree that pot odds are often favourable in these games, which in turn makes the games loose so expect some fluctuations on the table.
Only played their 5/10 a couple of times and there is still the occasional very poor player, but the play is at least reasonable, although it's still a beatable game. Maybe it's just the tables I was at, but I found the 5/10 slightly better than at Brantford, I'm guessing because the poorest players stick to 2/5. The 5/10 was still pretty loose though.
They can have big waiting lists so don't show up too late on weekends. Actually the few times I have played on Saturday afternoons, the games were much softer than the evenings.
You may be thinking of Holdem for Advanced Players. TOP is a fundamental piece of work which applies to any game, scaramugi, old chigaco, holdem, stud, razz, you name it. IMO, it's a pretty awesome book.
Like I said, I can't beat the Rama game, so what do I know. Loose games, I can play with my eyes closed. I can beat just about any play money game. That was about four years ago when I first started. And, I beat the .5/1 tables.
When there's 11 players in the game, there are many players "giving" odds, so calling pre-flop with Q9s in late middle position a half decent call, with four callers in front. However, others are getting far better odds, especially post-flop. I think the problem is post-flop, hands like Q9s are very vulnerable. If I could get 600-700 hands in, then my slightly favourable odds on hands like Q9s have a shot at paying off.
Personally, I think the 11 handed game requires more patience and going in with very favourable odds. I'll have to try it some day.
Cheers
Magi
I dont understand why you think adding 1 player to a loose game changes anything. It probably only increases variance and increases the odds your drawing hands get.
Are you sure you understand loose games? You are paying 1 or 2 bets preflop with the possibility of taking in massive pots postflop. If I had to venture a blind guess, I'd say you are losing money because you don't follow the Omaha 'Fit or Fold' mantra. Raise that AK preflop, but be prepared to toss it away on a suited/connected flop.
Extreme Bingo
I'm pretty sure I understand loose games, pot odds and the fit/fold strategy. I love loose games, and show a decent profit -- ie. an 8BB/100 hands at 1/2 Party. So, I'm not blowing smoke.
I'm looking for rational reasons why my game suffers at Rama and Port Perry. I have a winning record, online and offline in so many different games and places. The only two I can't beat consitently are Rama and Perry. Ok I've only been to Rama three times and Port Perry once, so "consistently" may not be the best word. However, the only thing I can see that's different from Rama/Perry to the games I consistently beat, is Rama/Perry are 11 handed.
An extra person makes a huge difference. Think of the difference between 6 handed short tables and the 5 handed short tables. For me there's a huge differnce. I also had trouble going from a 10 handed game to 9 handed full ring table on stars (that's how they started). The one player made a big differnce for me.
It could also be that I suck. But I won't let that enter into the equation. If I can't beat a game, I just won't play it. And, it works for me, since Rama/Perry are both almost 2 hour drives!!
Cheers
Magi
Couldn't variance be the big factor here? I remember making trips to Brantford playing the 2/5 table (which is very loose). I felt confident I was playing solid, and yet didn't show a profit until about my 4th or 5th session. I still feel confident in that I can beat this game long-run, but I'm also not overly shocked if I finish down in a single session.
If the average Ontario 2/5 pot is $20, that's a $2 rake* on average, which works out to (all else being equal) 4BB/100 hands per player. Toke the dealer $1 per pot won, and you're looking at an effective rake more along the lines of 6BB/100 per player**. And $20 as an estimate for the average pot in play-em-all, chase-em-all holdem is on the conservative side, don't you think?
So the question really is, can your skill differential really make up in long run winnings the roughly 4 to 8 BB/100 per player that's falling off the table? Maybe, but if you're that good (and have a comfortable bankroll), you might consider moving up in limits.*** :cool:
ScottyZ
*For those who don't know, the rake is $1 per $10 in the pot, up to a maximum of $5.
**For those players who do tip.
***Yes, I love footnotes.
I've played the Rama 2-5 game quite a bit, and I win more than I lose, but there are days when I go bust. Here's a few reasons that I finish down:
1. Variance. Every time I've played in the 2/5 Rama game, it has been sloooow. Could well be around 25 hands/hr. That means a 6 hour session is 150 hands, which is much harder to beat consistently than, say, 6 hours x 2 tables x 60 hands/hr = 720 hands online.
2. Patience. This is what does me in at Rama. I don't go on tilt from bad beats, I do it from going 2 hours without taking a single pot.
3. "He's a terrible player, so he probably has bad cards." This thinking can huuuurt me.
4. The rake is harsh, and the tokes and drink tips really do add up.
5. I play longer sessions than I should. I play hungry because I don't want to give up my seat. I play tired because I came so far to get here, and I want to get the most out of it.
You may know this already, but you can typically take a longish meal break without giving up your seat, usually one time per session. (I'm not positive how it works at Rama, I've actually never been.)
Of course, there are times when I have significantly delayed taking a break myself when there are one or more fish-a-mundos at my table. :cool:
A quick fix when playing hungry you could try is getting a drink that has even the smallest bit of "food value", such as fruit juice (in particular, I like a nice tomato juice as an emergency pick-me-up), and try avoiding alcohol and caffeine drinks until your hunger has been satiated.
ScottyZ
2. Yeah, I went on a stretch of winning 0 hands in 3 hours, than winning 4 hands straight to put me up big.
4. Rake adds up, but save on drinks. Either get two at a time or bring your own bottle of water (even though they give it), but if I order I doubt want to jip those waitresses out of food money. If your order, gotta tip, good kharma i say.
5. Yup, they have a food button. 1 hour, or you can miss 2 big blinds. And there is a snack bar to the right of the pokerroom so it should take more than 20 mintes to eat a burger or a bag of chips.
You can miss two big blinds, or you are picked up when you miss your second? Again, I don't know about Rama, but it's actually the latter in Brantford.
That's one slow-ass snack bar.
[Just kidding, I know what you meant.]
ScottyZ
I only played at RAMA once and let me tell you.. it wasn't a pleasant experience.. Not that I had a bad dealer (1).. not that I was hungry (5).. but just unlucky.. getting my big blinded killed many times or even when i had a pocket hands, they turned out to be single pairs... ... maybe I should try it again next time I come back to TO for holidays...
is there specific time, you guys prefer to play? like during the day/ night/ over night?
Pokerman
The One & Only
46 in BB(first BB post, came in on cutoff), flop is 578, make like $25 ish
T7 on SB, call the $1. Flop is 653 and I call the gutshot like any Rama player would, turn is 9 (giving me an up and down but its check all around so FREECARD and river is a 4. I bet and player string raises with AA so no extra BB for me
Next hand is JT, flop is KdQdRag, I deicde to go for freecard and raise it up, I think 4-5 caller. turn is Rag, and player to my right bets, I call and get checkraised, but I still call it (4 callers). River is Ad!! I made straight but flush is out, and caller who is FTA bets out, raiser calls and i make the CRYING CALL and better shows AA, yes i rake a nice $50-60 profit pot.
QT in EP. Flop is QJ8, I bet out and get called. Turn is an A, checked around. River is a K for DAH NUTZ!! EP bets out, I smooth call (hoping any two pair or even K or A will call) and player to my left raises, EP calls, I RERAISE, left calls, and EP says RAISE? (dealer says CAPPED, EP says i was just questioning, dealer says CAPPED) I call Left calls, and we chop 3 ways wih t7, Jt and my Qt. Nooo i was rivered, dam you CASINO RAMA!!!!
2 hands before I leave I get KQo (first time all night) and flop is AJT (2 hearts) I bet out on 4 callers. bet turn rag 8, 1 caller river is a T and I bet out he folds. Why did I bet with a possible full house on board you say, because i don;t think anyone had a set
No AK no AQ no AJ and highest PP was 77. You just gotta play your SH!T hands lol and make due.
Good luck with the 16 hours ones though.
Eventually, I lost big. So I started to analyze the situation as most females do. I realized that if you are playing a game against 8 people who stick till the River with hands such as King-2 off suit then you are dead!! Everyone is playing everything so you better have a HUGE stack a lot of LUCK, and forget how to play the game of poker!!!!
There is no ryme or reason to the 2-5 tables at Rama and I heard the same for 5-10.
Also, a little problem with the Dinner button. Button is an hour. I was down BIG. So I wanted a good dinner. My boyfriend and I went to the Steakhouse and spent 150$ on dinner. Not to mention we had been there many many times before. We go back to the table 4 MINUTES late and my chips are off the table and someone is in my seat. Now I would understand this if I had seen strict rules there before. But in my time there I had seen open seats for 30 minutes with a 2 hour waiting list before. I have also seen people showing each other cards, telling cards, and speaking other languages.
Needless to say I am not going back to the 2-5 tables at Rama. I want to find a game in Toronto (where I live) with people who I can learn from and have a good time.