Casino RAMA

I am planning to spend a weekend up at Casino Rama playing poker . Does anyone have experience playing there in their lower limit games? If so, plesae share some of your experiences.
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  • They have really loose games in their 2-5 and 5-10 ^^
    those are the limits i tried
  • For some reason I can't win at Rama. Perahps I'm not that good. Well, I just can't accept that -- lol.

    I think the toughest thing for me is that it's an 11 handed game, instead of a ten. From the Theory of Poker, the smaller the blinds the tighter you need to become. It goes against all intuition while you're in the game, because it's an extremely loose passive game (up to 5/10) and you have odds to call/raise in sooooo many spots.

    But, I trully think tightness is required for the game. It'll be boring, but if you want profit, it might be the way to go. However, I'm not sure because I haven't been able to tighten down my game and/or win there. Hmmmm...., I think there's a correlation.

    Some things to look out for. The conservative middle age woman bets into a field of 6 players -- at minimum she's got two pair. The asian who limped in, and raised the turn when the queen hit -- he's extremely likely to have AQ or QQ. Any turn raise, and you're likely looking at a minimum of a set -- two pair will call you down. Hey, it's alot like low limit play online -- only if you can believe it, more passive and looser (calling raises pre-flop).

    Good Luck
    Magi
  • I think the toughest thing for me is that it's an 11 handed game, instead of a ten. From the Theory of Poker, the smaller the blinds the tighter you need to become. It goes against all intuition while you're in the game, because it's an extremely loose passive game (up to 5/10) and you have odds to call/raise in sooooo many spots.

    Except that Theory of Poker wasn't written with Small Loose games in mind. Using it's strategy in those games is a money loser. SSH is the bible for these games.

    Also,

    What does intuition have to do with pot odds? If you have the odds to call/raise, theres no intuition involved.
  • If by "intuition" you mean reading and assessing the players then you should find the 5-10 and 10-20 games at Rama rather remedial. The players there are often easily to read and although the action is loose and passive it still takes incredible patience and the ability to overcome frustration to succeed.

    I agree that pot odds are often favourable in these games, which in turn makes the games loose so expect some fluctuations on the table.
  • I've played there several times. The 2/5 is a waaay loose game that I've done really well at, but it's been quite a while since I played that game. Basically, expect multi way pots that you can't chase people out of until the turn. Because of that you will sometimes have to dump big pairs when the flop isn't friendly and there are a lot of people in the pot betting/raising (don't give up too soon on them though). Hands that do well in multi way pots go up in value, nut flush draws and pocket pairs can do much better than at most games, because you can see the flop cheaply (not a lot of raising preflop usually), there are typically 4-6 limpers, and the big blind is a little smaller relative to the size of the big bet. You can win being a rote player and betting/raising for value only. No point in fancy plays here, no one is paying attention anyways. Not much point in bluffing much here either. You will virtually always have to showdown the best hand to win.

    Only played their 5/10 a couple of times and there is still the occasional very poor player, but the play is at least reasonable, although it's still a beatable game. Maybe it's just the tables I was at, but I found the 5/10 slightly better than at Brantford, I'm guessing because the poorest players stick to 2/5. The 5/10 was still pretty loose though.

    They can have big waiting lists so don't show up too late on weekends. Actually the few times I have played on Saturday afternoons, the games were much softer than the evenings.
  • BBC Z wrote:
    Except that Theory of Poker wasn't written with Small Loose games in mind. Using it's strategy in those games is a money loser. SSH is the bible for these games.

    Also,

    What does intuition have to do with pot odds? If you have the odds to call/raise, theres no intuition involved.

    You may be thinking of Holdem for Advanced Players. TOP is a fundamental piece of work which applies to any game, scaramugi, old chigaco, holdem, stud, razz, you name it. IMO, it's a pretty awesome book.

    Like I said, I can't beat the Rama game, so what do I know. Loose games, I can play with my eyes closed. I can beat just about any play money game. That was about four years ago when I first started. And, I beat the .5/1 tables.

    When there's 11 players in the game, there are many players "giving" odds, so calling pre-flop with Q9s in late middle position a half decent call, with four callers in front. However, others are getting far better odds, especially post-flop. I think the problem is post-flop, hands like Q9s are very vulnerable. If I could get 600-700 hands in, then my slightly favourable odds on hands like Q9s have a shot at paying off.

    Personally, I think the 11 handed game requires more patience and going in with very favourable odds. I'll have to try it some day.

    Cheers
    Magi
  • Like I said, I can't beat the Rama game, so what do I know. Loose games, I can play with my eyes closed. I can beat just about any play money game. That was about four years ago when I first started. And, I beat the .5/1 tables.

    I dont understand why you think adding 1 player to a loose game changes anything. It probably only increases variance and increases the odds your drawing hands get.
    However, others are getting far better odds, especially post-flop.

    Are you sure you understand loose games? You are paying 1 or 2 bets preflop with the possibility of taking in massive pots postflop. If I had to venture a blind guess, I'd say you are losing money because you don't follow the Omaha 'Fit or Fold' mantra. Raise that AK preflop, but be prepared to toss it away on a suited/connected flop.
  • it takes a different sort of game to excel at Bingo...ummm i mean rama 2/5 5/10! haha. i used to play their regularly and went back last week for the first time im a couple months, and it really is a game of odds. i admittedly play all sorts of crap, just like everyone else, and when it hits, it pays off. you have to know when to drop and pot odds are a huge part of that game as you're looking at minimum 5 ppl to a flop 95% of the time. also, its very easy there to figure out what types of hands ppl are playing, just pay attention and believe me not too many ppl at 2/5 change gears! lol (myself included) but probably the safest way is just standard tight-aggressive play. i cant play this way its just not my style! :cool: but my thing seems to be working for me, ive cashed out up between 100-200 my last 4 times there, although i promptly lose all that money online. g/l
  • I have two words for the 2/5 at Rama
    Extreme Bingo
  • BBC Z wrote:
    I dont understand why you think adding 1 player to a loose game changes anything. It probably only increases variance and increases the odds your drawing hands get.

    Are you sure you understand loose games? You are paying 1 or 2 bets preflop with the possibility of taking in massive pots postflop. If I had to venture a blind guess, I'd say you are losing money because you don't follow the Omaha 'Fit or Fold' mantra. Raise that AK preflop, but be prepared to toss it away on a suited/connected flop.

    I'm pretty sure I understand loose games, pot odds and the fit/fold strategy. I love loose games, and show a decent profit -- ie. an 8BB/100 hands at 1/2 Party. So, I'm not blowing smoke.

    I'm looking for rational reasons why my game suffers at Rama and Port Perry. I have a winning record, online and offline in so many different games and places. The only two I can't beat consitently are Rama and Perry. Ok I've only been to Rama three times and Port Perry once, so "consistently" may not be the best word. However, the only thing I can see that's different from Rama/Perry to the games I consistently beat, is Rama/Perry are 11 handed.

    An extra person makes a huge difference. Think of the difference between 6 handed short tables and the 5 handed short tables. For me there's a huge differnce. I also had trouble going from a 10 handed game to 9 handed full ring table on stars (that's how they started). The one player made a big differnce for me.

    It could also be that I suck. But I won't let that enter into the equation. If I can't beat a game, I just won't play it. And, it works for me, since Rama/Perry are both almost 2 hour drives!!

    Cheers
    Magi
  • 1/2 Party is a rock garden compared to 2/5 Rama. I struggle with extremely loose games as well, such at 0.5/1 and 1/2 on Pacific, that's like a B&M 2/5 game. Mainly I think it's just variance. At Pacific 1/2 I'd hit cold cards for 1000 hands, then in the next 50 hands, hit a few flushes, have KK hold up, and all of a sudden, I'm in the green.
  • magi, can you explain what the big difference is between ten handed and eleven handed or even 9 handed for that matter. i've always understood changing my play requirements once short handed, but never thought of making adjustments between 11-10-9
  • Ok I've only been to Rama three times and Port Perry once, so "consistently" may not be the best word.

    Couldn't variance be the big factor here? I remember making trips to Brantford playing the 2/5 table (which is very loose). I felt confident I was playing solid, and yet didn't show a profit until about my 4th or 5th session. I still feel confident in that I can beat this game long-run, but I'm also not overly shocked if I finish down in a single session.
  • In addition to simply variance (a good explanation of short term results of course), how about high rake being a factor?

    If the average Ontario 2/5 pot is $20, that's a $2 rake* on average, which works out to (all else being equal) 4BB/100 hands per player. Toke the dealer $1 per pot won, and you're looking at an effective rake more along the lines of 6BB/100 per player**. And $20 as an estimate for the average pot in play-em-all, chase-em-all holdem is on the conservative side, don't you think?

    So the question really is, can your skill differential really make up in long run winnings the roughly 4 to 8 BB/100 per player that's falling off the table? Maybe, but if you're that good (and have a comfortable bankroll), you might consider moving up in limits.*** :cool:

    ScottyZ

    *For those who don't know, the rake is $1 per $10 in the pot, up to a maximum of $5.

    **For those players who do tip.

    ***Yes, I love footnotes.
  • Im going bingo-ing this friday. Ill be in a Manning Jersey. Hopefully I'll take a few pots down :)
  • Wow is the rake that high now? 10% to a max of $5. When I dealt at the charity casinos it was 5% to a max of $5 for the 2-5 game. And i thought that was high. We would average $65-$75 an hour at 5% to $5 max.
  • I forgot to ask before. How many poker tables do they have at Rama? And how many for each limit and what limits do they have? I know the games will change day to day but on average.
  • they have 11 tables, since I last saw. On weekends, almost all tables are open with 2-3 hour waits. On weekdays, expect 3-4 2-5 tables and one of each fo the higher limits.
  • magithighs wrote:
    I'm looking for rational reasons why my game suffers at Rama and Port Perry.

    I've played the Rama 2-5 game quite a bit, and I win more than I lose, but there are days when I go bust. Here's a few reasons that I finish down:

    1. Variance. Every time I've played in the 2/5 Rama game, it has been sloooow. Could well be around 25 hands/hr. That means a 6 hour session is 150 hands, which is much harder to beat consistently than, say, 6 hours x 2 tables x 60 hands/hr = 720 hands online.

    2. Patience. This is what does me in at Rama. I don't go on tilt from bad beats, I do it from going 2 hours without taking a single pot.

    3. "He's a terrible player, so he probably has bad cards." This thinking can huuuurt me.

    4. The rake is harsh, and the tokes and drink tips really do add up.

    5. I play longer sessions than I should. I play hungry because I don't want to give up my seat. I play tired because I came so far to get here, and I want to get the most out of it.
  • 5. I play longer sessions than I should. I play hungry because I don't want to give up my seat.

    You may know this already, but you can typically take a longish meal break without giving up your seat, usually one time per session. (I'm not positive how it works at Rama, I've actually never been.)

    Of course, there are times when I have significantly delayed taking a break myself when there are one or more fish-a-mundos at my table. :cool:

    A quick fix when playing hungry you could try is getting a drink that has even the smallest bit of "food value", such as fruit juice (in particular, I like a nice tomato juice as an emergency pick-me-up), and try avoiding alcohol and caffeine drinks until your hunger has been satiated.

    ScottyZ
  • Axiom_1 wrote:
    I've played the Rama 2-5 game quite a bit, and I win more than I lose, but there are days when I go bust. Here's a few reasons that I finish down:

    1. Variance. Every time I've played in the 2/5 Rama game, it has been sloooow. Could well be around 25 hands/hr. That means a 6 hour session is 150 hands, which is much harder to beat consistently than, say, 6 hours x 2 tables x 60 hands/hr = 720 hands online.

    2. Patience. This is what does me in at Rama. I don't go on tilt from bad beats, I do it from going 2 hours without taking a single pot.

    3. "He's a terrible player, so he probably has bad cards." This thinking can huuuurt me.

    4. The rake is harsh, and the tokes and drink tips really do add up.

    5. I play longer sessions than I should. I play hungry because I don't want to give up my seat. I play tired because I came so far to get here, and I want to get the most out of it.
    1. Yup, there are some fast dealers, which I really like, and some bad dealers. I remember a dealer telling a guy not to bluff so much (I was thinking wtf cuz he was the seat to my right). He was SS so I let it go, but if it happens again, Ill call the Flr Manager on her.

    2. Yeah, I went on a stretch of winning 0 hands in 3 hours, than winning 4 hands straight to put me up big.

    4. Rake adds up, but save on drinks. Either get two at a time or bring your own bottle of water (even though they give it), but if I order I doubt want to jip those waitresses out of food money. If your order, gotta tip, good kharma i say.

    5. Yup, they have a food button. 1 hour, or you can miss 2 big blinds. And there is a snack bar to the right of the pokerroom so it should take more than 20 mintes to eat a burger or a bag of chips.
  • 5. Yup, they have a food button. 1 hour, or you can miss 2 big blinds.

    You can miss two big blinds, or you are picked up when you miss your second? Again, I don't know about Rama, but it's actually the latter in Brantford.
    And there is a snack bar to the right of the pokerroom so it should take more than 20 mintes to eat a burger or a bag of chips.

    That's one slow-ass snack bar.

    ;)

    [Just kidding, I know what you meant.]

    ScottyZ
  • Yeah, I should clarify, once you miss the second big blind, they pick up your chips. So you can miss 1 and nearly the second!
  • Tilter wrote:
    1. Yup, there are some fast dealers, which I really like, and some bad dealers. I remember a dealer telling a guy not to bluff so much (I was thinking wtf cuz he was the seat to my right). He was SS so I let it go, but if it happens again, Ill call the Flr Manager on her.

    2. Yeah, I went on a stretch of winning 0 hands in 3 hours, than winning 4 hands straight to put me up big.

    4. Rake adds up, but save on drinks. Either get two at a time or bring your own bottle of water (even though they give it), but if I order I doubt want to jip those waitresses out of food money. If your order, gotta tip, good kharma i say.

    5. Yup, they have a food button. 1 hour, or you can miss 2 big blinds. And there is a snack bar to the right of the pokerroom so it should take more than 20 mintes to eat a burger or a bag of chips.

    I only played at RAMA once and let me tell you.. it wasn't a pleasant experience.. Not that I had a bad dealer (1).. not that I was hungry (5).. but just unlucky.. getting my big blinded killed many times or even when i had a pocket hands, they turned out to be single pairs... ... maybe I should try it again next time I come back to TO for holidays...

    is there specific time, you guys prefer to play? like during the day/ night/ over night?


    Pokerman
    The One & Only
  • I find that you have to be a bit looser in these games, and just go for it. I went today and played a shorter session than usual. $5 trips with campus for me there by 7 pm, a FREE BUFFET VOUCHER (value $20, so I am on +EV already). Hit tables @ 830 (have to leave by 1230 arg, so 4 hour session). I take some nice pots.
    46 in BB(first BB post, came in on cutoff), flop is 578, make like $25 ish
    T7 on SB, call the $1. Flop is 653 and I call the gutshot like any Rama player would, turn is 9 (giving me an up and down but its check all around so FREECARD and river is a 4. I bet and player string raises with AA so no extra BB for me
    Next hand is JT, flop is KdQdRag, I deicde to go for freecard and raise it up, I think 4-5 caller. turn is Rag, and player to my right bets, I call and get checkraised, but I still call it (4 callers). River is Ad!! I made straight but flush is out, and caller who is FTA bets out, raiser calls and i make the CRYING CALL and better shows AA, yes i rake a nice $50-60 profit pot.
    QT in EP. Flop is QJ8, I bet out and get called. Turn is an A, checked around. River is a K for DAH NUTZ!! EP bets out, I smooth call (hoping any two pair or even K or A will call) and player to my left raises, EP calls, I RERAISE, left calls, and EP says RAISE? (dealer says CAPPED, EP says i was just questioning, dealer says CAPPED) I call Left calls, and we chop 3 ways wih t7, Jt and my Qt. Nooo i was rivered, dam you CASINO RAMA!!!!
    2 hands before I leave I get KQo (first time all night) and flop is AJT (2 hearts) I bet out on 4 callers. bet turn rag 8, 1 caller river is a T and I bet out he folds. Why did I bet with a possible full house on board you say, because i don;t think anyone had a set :)

    No AK no AQ no AJ and highest PP was 77. You just gotta play your SH!T hands lol and make due.
  • im gonna play 16 hours a day on the weekend
  • Most I ever did was a 8pm tp 6am session. 10 hours and I thought that was way to long. I would max a session at 8 hours. Only reason I stayed longer was because I was on a RUSH.
  • Am I the only sucker who has done a stupid long session (20+ hours) there? It is definitely a terrible feeling to get up, win or lose, after that long and try to get home.

    Good luck with the 16 hours ones though.
  • i havent done any sessions at a casino, but my "one night a month" home game usually turns into a 20+ hour session pretty easily
  • I have had quite a bit of experience at Rama and I would LOVE to share my experiences. My boyfriend and I started playing about 2 years ago at home games. We played all no-limit hold’em , Omaha high, and seven card. We started going to Rama at the beginning of the summer. We went about 15 times averaging 10 hours a session on Friday nights when it was busy (always playing 2-5 by the way). We got to be familiar with the pit bosses dealers etc. so we felt very comfortable and all. I won most of the time and he lost most of the time. He couldn’t figure out WHY. He would get so frustrated because basically he is a better player than I.

    Eventually, I lost big. So I started to analyze the situation as most females do. I realized that if you are playing a game against 8 people who stick till the River with hands such as King-2 off suit then you are dead!! Everyone is playing everything so you better have a HUGE stack a lot of LUCK, and forget how to play the game of poker!!!!

    There is no ryme or reason to the 2-5 tables at Rama and I heard the same for 5-10.
    Also, a little problem with the Dinner button. Button is an hour. I was down BIG. So I wanted a good dinner. My boyfriend and I went to the Steakhouse and spent 150$ on dinner. Not to mention we had been there many many times before. We go back to the table 4 MINUTES late and my chips are off the table and someone is in my seat. Now I would understand this if I had seen strict rules there before. But in my time there I had seen open seats for 30 minutes with a 2 hour waiting list before. I have also seen people showing each other cards, telling cards, and speaking other languages.

    Needless to say I am not going back to the 2-5 tables at Rama. I want to find a game in Toronto (where I live) with people who I can learn from and have a good time.
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