Does any one know what happens if you get caught in a underground game? Is it a criminal offence or do you just get a ticket? Any information would be cool. Thank you
(a) is found, without lawful excuse, in a common gaming house or common betting house, or
(b) as owner, landlord, lessor, tenant, occupier or agent, knowingly permits a place to be let or used for the purposes of a common gaming house or common betting house,
is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
---quote ends---
See the rest of Section 201 for the definitions of "common gaming house" and "common betting house".
Loosely speaking, a summary conviction results from a "minor" offence, but may be punishable by fines and/or jail time.
---quote begins---
Summary conviction offences encompass the most minor offences in the Criminal Code. Examples are "communicate for the purpose of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute," "cause disturbance," and "harassing telephone calls."
Unless a different penalty is specified, summary conviction offences are punishable by a fine of up to $2,000 or six months' jail or both.
---quote ends---
The usual "This is not legal advice, nor would you ever get actual legal advice on an internet forum" disclaimer applies.
Summary conviction offences encompass the most minor offences in the Criminal Code. Examples are "communicate for the purpose of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute," "cause disturbance," and "harassing telephone calls."
Hiring a prostitute is a minor offence and treated the same as a harassing phone call?!?!?
Hiring a prostitute is a minor offence and treated the same as a harassing phone call?!?!?
SWEET!!!! :biggrin:
Now you can go wild, and make all those harassing phone calls you've always wanted to make.
Seriously though, summary conviction seems to be a very broad classification, since punishments can range from small fines, up to $2,000 fines and/or 6 months in jail. There are probably all different sorts of standards (or at least sentencing precedents) for the various specific types of summary conviction offences.
DISCLAIMER: obviously I'm not giving you legal advice. Do you really believe everything you read on the internet? Obviously you shouldn't, and if I'm giving any advice it is to NOT break the law, or at least not to get caught doing it.... but
I can't stress enough that because this is the way it has gone down in some past cases, does not mean it is the way it will go down if you are in this situation. Obviously you need to understand that you can be charged and that you can't count on the police doing anything but following the letter of the law.
Having said that, it is common that they drop any charges against employees/patrons once the owner pleads guilty, assuming they charged the patrons in the first place. This is a matter of policy, as they could see it through and convict you if the evidence is there... they just don't really care to go after the "little guys" usually. If they charge patrons, it's usually to gain leverage/witnesses for their case against the person running the game.
Repeating again, this is not legal advice, and is just how some past cases have gone, as opposed to being how future cases will necessarily be handled by the relevant authorities.
To add to Iron's point, my understanding is that the patrons usually receive no more than you'd get for a speeding ticket... a fine of about $100. The owners and operators are a different story.
Running a poker game may still be illegal if it results in an indirect profit to anyone, or if poker is played in a house which is "kept for gain" (Criminal Code, Sec 197, "common gaming house", Part (a)).
The reason i'm asking is I am playing in the tournament at York university and my friend also has his name on the list but he is concerned about the legality of the game. I told him not to worry about it, but if something happens i will feel at fault for telling him that.
All normal legal disclaimers apply here (I am not a lawyer, at your own risk, etc).
Any and all gambling we do on a daily basis, including home poker games, football pools, even the - 'hey, I'll give you $10 to make of an ass of yourself in front of that chick' - is illegal. Period. Any of it is subject to punishment to the fullest extend of the cited law below if someone were to bother with it.
Before I started these games at universities, I did my homework and spoke with detectives at the Gaming Comissioners office. I had another plan not involving universities, but poker nonetheless.
There are three things that give an activity the title of 'gambling' (and this is stripped WAY down from the info I received) -
1- cash trading hands. IE - free entry, no problem.
2- prizing based on the money collected - predetermined prize for no entry fee, no problem.
3 - profit from the game - IE - no rake, no ticket sales, no food and drink sales - etc.
There have been many attempts in Ontario to circumvent these rules and they have all been shot down (no-one got in big big trouble from it though). That being said, running a gaming house and hosting a game in a location are serious things to consider. Since you are PARTICIPATING and nothing else, if a detecitve or inspector were to check out the game at York, there would be a ticket issued to players and nothing else of note done. This is unlikely to happen.
Furthermore, the poker club at school is a recognized club and has special priveledges on campus. Like hosting practise tournaments for its members. Lastly, York U is private property and this is a very small game (in terms of stakes), so this will definately fly under the radar of most players, let alone the agents of the gaming comission. There are other clubs operating with much higher publicity than this game, so we will be WAY WAY down on the hit list, assuming something like that exists.
even the - 'hey, I'll give you $10 to make of an ass of yourself in front of that chick' - is illegal.
I missed the section of the Criminal Code that covers this.
Any and all gambling we do on a daily basis, including home poker games, football pools... is illegal.
Not necessarily. Gambling which does not fall under the definitions in Criminal Code Part VII is not illegal.
Under suitable conditions, it is possible for things like home poker games and football pools to be not illegal.
That being said, running a gaming house and hosting a game in a location are serious things to consider.
Absolutely.
Since you are PARTICIPATING and nothing else, if a detecitve or inspector were to check out the game at York, there would be a ticket issued to players and nothing else of note done.
I wouldn't want anyone to read this and become to complacent. Penalties beyond just tickets are allowable within the law for both participants and organizers.
Its safe to say that if you are having a home game the rcmp arent going to send swat into your house. Just be cautious in the kind of club you play in.
Comments
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/42271.html
---quote begins---
(2) Every one who
(a) is found, without lawful excuse, in a common gaming house or common betting house, or
(b) as owner, landlord, lessor, tenant, occupier or agent, knowingly permits a place to be let or used for the purposes of a common gaming house or common betting house,
is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
---quote ends---
See the rest of Section 201 for the definitions of "common gaming house" and "common betting house".
Loosely speaking, a summary conviction results from a "minor" offence, but may be punishable by fines and/or jail time.
http://www.criminal-lawyer.on.ca/classification.html
---quote begins---
Summary conviction offences encompass the most minor offences in the Criminal Code. Examples are "communicate for the purpose of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute," "cause disturbance," and "harassing telephone calls."
Unless a different penalty is specified, summary conviction offences are punishable by a fine of up to $2,000 or six months' jail or both.
---quote ends---
The usual "This is not legal advice, nor would you ever get actual legal advice on an internet forum" disclaimer applies.
ScottyZ
SWEET!!!! :biggrin:
Now you can go wild, and make all those harassing phone calls you've always wanted to make.
Seriously though, summary conviction seems to be a very broad classification, since punishments can range from small fines, up to $2,000 fines and/or 6 months in jail. There are probably all different sorts of standards (or at least sentencing precedents) for the various specific types of summary conviction offences.
ScottyZ
I can't stress enough that because this is the way it has gone down in some past cases, does not mean it is the way it will go down if you are in this situation. Obviously you need to understand that you can be charged and that you can't count on the police doing anything but following the letter of the law.
Having said that, it is common that they drop any charges against employees/patrons once the owner pleads guilty, assuming they charged the patrons in the first place. This is a matter of policy, as they could see it through and convict you if the evidence is there... they just don't really care to go after the "little guys" usually. If they charge patrons, it's usually to gain leverage/witnesses for their case against the person running the game.
Repeating again, this is not legal advice, and is just how some past cases have gone, as opposed to being how future cases will necessarily be handled by the relevant authorities.
i am planning on running a tournament, and thats also illegal??
thanks,
johnny
john@singlethreat.com
Not necessarily.
Running a poker game may still be illegal if it results in an indirect profit to anyone, or if poker is played in a house which is "kept for gain" (Criminal Code, Sec 197, "common gaming house", Part (a)).
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/42271.html
See also for example, R. v. Turmel, 1995 CanLII 1602 (ON C.A.)
http://www.canlii.org/on/cas/onca/1995/1995onca10273.html
ScottyZ
You'll be buried in litigation. lol
Any and all gambling we do on a daily basis, including home poker games, football pools, even the - 'hey, I'll give you $10 to make of an ass of yourself in front of that chick' - is illegal. Period. Any of it is subject to punishment to the fullest extend of the cited law below if someone were to bother with it.
Before I started these games at universities, I did my homework and spoke with detectives at the Gaming Comissioners office. I had another plan not involving universities, but poker nonetheless.
There are three things that give an activity the title of 'gambling' (and this is stripped WAY down from the info I received) -
1- cash trading hands. IE - free entry, no problem.
2- prizing based on the money collected - predetermined prize for no entry fee, no problem.
3 - profit from the game - IE - no rake, no ticket sales, no food and drink sales - etc.
There have been many attempts in Ontario to circumvent these rules and they have all been shot down (no-one got in big big trouble from it though). That being said, running a gaming house and hosting a game in a location are serious things to consider. Since you are PARTICIPATING and nothing else, if a detecitve or inspector were to check out the game at York, there would be a ticket issued to players and nothing else of note done. This is unlikely to happen.
Furthermore, the poker club at school is a recognized club and has special priveledges on campus. Like hosting practise tournaments for its members. Lastly, York U is private property and this is a very small game (in terms of stakes), so this will definately fly under the radar of most players, let alone the agents of the gaming comission. There are other clubs operating with much higher publicity than this game, so we will be WAY WAY down on the hit list, assuming something like that exists.
Bottom line, show up, play and have a good time.
I missed the section of the Criminal Code that covers this.
Not necessarily. Gambling which does not fall under the definitions in Criminal Code Part VII is not illegal.
Under suitable conditions, it is possible for things like home poker games and football pools to be not illegal.
Absolutely.
I wouldn't want anyone to read this and become to complacent. Penalties beyond just tickets are allowable within the law for both participants and organizers.
ScottyZ