street pokerz

Vekked

The pot alone was bigger than 2nd place's chips in the tournament with 47 left.

PokerStars Game #61613995994: Tournament #419011041, $150+$12 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2011/05/02 23:54:40 ET
Table '419011041 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Yanque (1140 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: josepemaria (2323 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: chaochazz (12766 in chips)
Seat 4: LOPEZB (9467 in chips)
Seat 5: VARICO (512 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: Vekked (81217 in chips)
Seat 8: rent82 (67452 in chips)
Seat 9: Slick50 (25089 in chips)
Yanque: posts the ante 75
josepemaria: posts the ante 75
chaochazz: posts the ante 75
LOPEZB: posts the ante 75
VARICO: posts the ante 75
Vekked: posts the ante 75
rent82: posts the ante 75
Slick50: posts the ante 75
chaochazz: posts small blind 400
LOPEZB: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Vekked [Js Ad]
VARICO: folds
Vekked: raises 878 to 1678
rent82: raises 2097 to 3775
Slick50: folds
Yanque: folds
josepemaria: folds
chaochazz: folds
LOPEZB: folds
Vekked: calls 2097
*** FLOP *** [2d 6d 9h]
Vekked: checks
rent82: bets 3375
Vekked: calls 3375
*** TURN *** [2d 6d 9h] [6h]
Vekked: checks
rent82: bets 6225
Vekked: raises 8342 to 14567
rent82: raises 9342 to 23909
Vekked: raises 40091 to 64000
rent82: folds
Uncalled bet (40091) returned to Vekked
Vekked collected 63918 from pot
Vekked: shows [Js Ad] (a pair of Sixes)

jdAA88

wowwwww! please explain your thought process here

Wetts1012

This line really, really makes sense during analysis.

Fact is, real time, its really difficult for almost everyone. Less tables, ftw.

reibs

sickness itt.... please explain turn thought process!!

betrthanphil

Very sick!!! Im a nit and fold pre :P

betrthanphil

Im assuming this was your plan when you called pre, or was it a call and reevalute after flop, Obv if the flop come A low low or something it plays differently though.....

betrthanphil

also how is there 3 guys sitting out lol

Unknown

betrthanphil wrote: »

Very sick!!! Im a nit and fold pre :P

me too apperently

no i fold to the 3bet but id rather get a bunch of villains chips in a fold him ou

Richard~

I'd probably 4bet pre since he's as deep as he is and his range is more weighted towards bluffs than valuehands in a vacuum. On turn I guess he's rarely gonna have a super strong hand when he 3bets you since he would flat most of his valuerange that isn't 99 or A6 but I'm curious to the thoughtproccess behind this as well

JohnnieH

Villain had AK. Brilliant play.

Vekked

It was a verrry opponent specific hand. Anyone who thinks they fold pre probably wouldn't vs. this guy, haha. Basically this guy had been getting pretty out of line and was trying to be the table captain and 3-betting everyone. Our table was really weak so it was working pretty good, he just stacked someone for 35BB when he 3-bet their hijack raise with 76o in the cut-off and stacked them on like 7xx7x (which was very signficant to this hand) . He 3-bet someone else with some garbage offsuit hand too, and had a bunch that didn't get to showdown. A couple hands before this I played a hand where I had AT and he 3-bet me and I flatted and called some bets and get to showdown and he showed me 92o, so I knew his 3-betting range was attrocious and I could exploit it.

A couple hands later this hand comes up. He 3-bets again and I'm not folding since he's 3-betting a ton of worse Ax and Jx hands, and he's a monkey. I consider 4-betting but I'd rather keep that junk in his range, and if I 4-bet I'm going to 6-bet and that's a lot of chips to get in with AJo even vs. this ratard. So I call pretty much knowing if I hit a pair I'm golden, and I intend on continuing for value on a lot of dry flops/flops where I have some sort of equity (gut shots, backdoor flush draws, etc).

This flop comes and it's not toooo awful. Sure his 92o got there but a bunch of his range didn't since he has so many hands that are big/little and have no relevance to any board and he's gonna have a hard to standing any heat I choose to put on him later. I have the backdoor nut flush draw, and vs. his range I'm surely ahead at this point anyways, let alone enough to call his 1/3 pot bet (only have to have 20% equity). I considered check-raising, but again we're kinda deep and I don't wanna check-raise/get it in, or check-raise/fold to someone who I feel is capable of monkeying a flop 3-bet with a heap of hands.

So the turn comes, and this is where the actual reads come in. He bets about 1/3 pot again or maybe a bit less. Now, I know his c-bet is sized like that because he has air 99% of the time so he's trying to win pots as cheaply as possible, but his tiny turn bet is very suspicious on a board with 2 flush draws and deep stacks. It doesn't really make much sense for someone with a good hand wanting to get stacks in. So I go to the hand history and check a couple other hands that saw turn cards. I noticed on the ones that didn't get to showdown his standard sizing seemed to be ~1/3 pot, but on the hand that he hit trip 7s on a somewhat wet board, his bet was a bit over half pot. So now I'm pretty confident that if he had a 6, or a hand he felt was very strong, he would be trying to juice up the pot, not make small milky bets. So yea, I caught a bet-sizing tell.

So now I know he doesn't have a 6, but what about the rest of his range? Well he could have 2x, small pairs, 9x, flush or straight draws, air, or overpairs. If I check/call for value, I allow him to get there with all of his draws for free, which I think are a significant amount of his range on this board, some sort of gut shots or something. Same with if he just has 2 live cards, he actually has like 6+ outs that I don't love giving him for free. If he has a 2, small pair, or something else he's going for thin value, he's gonna be in a pretty awful spot when I check-raise. If he has overpairs, which I think is discounted slightly because he would bet bigger on such a wet board, he's surely not going to look to get it in when it's definitely conceivable that I have some sort of 6 or something and with game flow it seems like I'm starting to take a stand.

So, I plan to check-raise to get value from draws, fold out some of his weaker hands that beat me, and fold out some hands that aren't paired but have equity against me. I think it's unlikely that he has an overpair, his strongest hand is probably some sort of 9. So I check-raise mostly for thin value/to take initiative, and he thinks for a couple seconds and 3-bets me fairly quickly. Hmm, interesting. Now I already deduced that he pretty much never has anything he feels is strong/worth getting more value from on this wet of a board, and I highly doubt he's 3-bet/calling a 9 or 77 or something, especially when he did it so quickly. I feel like any real decision he would have to think a bit more, so his range is weighted towards air, and some draws. So now I have a timing tell that makes this decision a bit easier. Since his 3-betting range is stuff he doesn't really want to call, which is mostly air or small pairs, with a big draw some % of the time that I'm actually ahead of or flipping with, I decide it's a pretty easy shove and I expect to only really get called by draws (if he 3-bet them) and just have pray that I hold. Luckily he just snap-folded and I got the chips with no sweat .

Vekked

Richard~ wrote: »

I'd probably 4bet pre since he's as deep as he is and his range is more weighted towards bluffs than valuehands in a vacuum.

This actually makes a better case for calling most times (vs. most players I folded AJo even if their range is weighted towards bluffs. Depending on the hands he's picking to 3-bet, calling could definitely be the best option. If he's 3-betting Ax or Jx hands as bluffs then calling is pretty sweet to keep those in. If his range is legitimately polarized (AK/JJ+ or AQ/99+ for value, and 65o/75s type hands as a bluff) then calling with AJo becomes pretty bad since you're no longer dominating any hands in his range. So yea, that's something that separates good players from not so good when 3-betting, since a good player can throw a lot of bluffs in their range but have it constructed such that you still can't flat a hand as good as AJ or sometimes AQ profitably. Though there are times when 3-betting a range that's not so clean is best, usually against fish who won't exploit you though.

His 3-betting range alone is not enough info on whether we should 4-bet for value. There's no 3-betting range that someone could have here that proves 4-betting for value is good, since the information we need is not what he's 3-betting, but what he's continuing with vs. a 4-bet. 4-bet bluffing is definitely valid but I thought my hand was too strong vs. this specific player to turn into a bluff.

Unknown

Vekked wrote: »

If his range is legitimately polarized (AK/JJ+ or AQ/99+ for value, and 65o/75s type hands as a bluff) then calling with AJo becomes pretty bad since you're no longer dominating any hands in his range.

boom...got it

philliivey

betrthanphil wrote: »

Very sick!!! Im a nit and fold pre :P

haha this obv!:cool2:

philliivey

Vekked wrote: »

It was a verrry opponent specific hand. Anyone who thinks they fold pre probably wouldn't vs. this guy, haha. Basically this guy had been getting pretty out of line and was trying to be the table captain and 3-betting everyone. Our table was really weak so it was working pretty good, he just stacked someone for 35BB when he 3-bet their hijack raise with 76o in the cut-off and stacked them on like 7xx7x (which was very signficant to this hand) . He 3-bet someone else with some garbage offsuit hand too, and had a bunch that didn't get to showdown. A couple hands before this I played a hand where I had AT and he 3-bet me and I flatted and called some bets and get to showdown and he showed me 92o, so I knew his 3-betting range was attrocious and I could exploit it.

A couple hands later this hand comes up. He 3-bets again and I'm not folding since he's 3-betting a ton of worse Ax and Jx hands, and he's a monkey. I consider 4-betting but I'd rather keep that junk in his range, and if I 4-bet I'm going to 6-bet and that's a lot of chips to get in with AJo even vs. this ratard. So I call pretty much knowing if I hit a pair I'm golden, and I intend on continuing for value on a lot of dry flops/flops where I have some sort of equity (gut shots, backdoor flush draws, etc).

This flop comes and it's not toooo awful. Sure his 92o got there but a bunch of his range didn't since he has so many hands that are big/little and have no relevance to any board and he's gonna have a hard to standing any heat I choose to put on him later. I have the backdoor nut flush draw, and vs. his range I'm surely ahead at this point anyways, let alone enough to call his 1/3 pot bet (only have to have 20% equity). I considered check-raising, but again we're kinda deep and I don't wanna check-raise/get it in, or check-raise/fold to someone who I feel is capable of monkeying a flop 3-bet with a heap of hands.

So the turn comes, and this is where the actual reads come in. He bets about 1/3 pot again or maybe a bit less. Now, I know his c-bet is sized like that because he has air 99% of the time so he's trying to win pots as cheaply as possible, but his tiny turn bet is very suspicious on a board with 2 flush draws and deep stacks. It doesn't really make much sense for someone with a good hand wanting to get stacks in. So I go to the hand history and check a couple other hands that saw turn cards. I noticed on the ones that didn't get to showdown his standard sizing seemed to be ~1/3 pot, but on the hand that he hit trip 7s on a somewhat wet board, his bet was a bit over half pot. So now I'm pretty confident that if he had a 6, or a hand he felt was very strong, he would be trying to juice up the pot, not make small milky bets. So yea, I caught a bet-sizing tell.

So now I know he doesn't have a 6, but what about the rest of his range? Well he could have 2x, small pairs, 9x, flush or straight draws, air, or overpairs. If I check/call for value, I allow him to get there with all of his draws for free, which I think are a significant amount of his range on this board, some sort of gut shots or something. Same with if he just has 2 live cards, he actually has like 6+ outs that I don't love giving him for free. If he has a 2, small pair, or something else he's going for thin value, he's gonna be in a pretty awful spot when I check-raise. If he has overpairs, which I think is discounted slightly because he would bet bigger on such a wet board, he's surely not going to look to get it in when it's definitely conceivable that I have some sort of 6 or something and with game flow it seems like I'm starting to take a stand.

So, I plan to check-raise to get value from draws, fold out some of his weaker hands that beat me, and fold out some hands that aren't paired but have equity against me. I think it's unlikely that he has an overpair, his strongest hand is probably some sort of 9. So I check-raise mostly for thin value/to take initiative, and he thinks for a couple seconds and 3-bets me fairly quickly. Hmm, interesting. Now I already deduced that he pretty much never has anything he feels is strong/worth getting more value from on this wet of a board, and I highly doubt he's 3-bet/calling a 9 or 77 or something, especially when he did it so quickly. I feel like any real decision he would have to think a bit more, so his range is weighted towards air, and some draws. So now I have a timing tell that makes this decision a bit easier. Since his 3-betting range is stuff he doesn't really want to call, which is mostly air or small pairs, with a big draw some % of the time that I'm actually ahead of or flipping with, I decide it's a pretty easy shove and I expect to only really get called by draws (if he 3-bet them) and just have pray that I hold. Luckily he just snap-folded and I got the chips with no sweat .

Holy sweet Jesus this post is amazing, hof!:o

Unknown

fuck'n sick line man.

love it

betrthanphil

haha well now that you explain it, its so obvious :P
Bet sizing tells are so huge at level I find. Thats why I dont like to 8 table or beyond haha. I like to have time when in a big pot to look at previous hands to try to find bet sizing tells. Very good pick up, and good hand to show to people on the forum. well done

Unknown

betrthanphil wrote: »

haha well now that you explain it, its so obvious :P
Bet sizing tells are so huge at level I find. Thats why I dont like to 8 table or beyond haha. I like to have time when in a big pot to look at previous hands to try to find bet sizing tells. Very good pick up, and good hand to show to people on the forum. well done

i was gonna comment on looking up the previous hands. i have no time to do this. how do you know theyre in the hand, like that they play any streets in each previous hand? and you can do this with 7 tables?

betrthanphil

lol no not 7 tables, I usually do 4 haha. but just memory recall. or I click back quick and look for a pot where they won and play it.

Unknown

betrthanphil wrote: »

lol no not 7 tables, I usually do 4 haha. but just memory recall. or I click back quick and look for a pot where they won and play it.

noted