FTP vs. SHARKSCOPE
in Online Poker
So, FTP has banned Sharkscope in their ongoing efforts to prevent data mining of their site. Thoughts?
Sharkscope has retaliated by quietly suggesting a player boycott, while pointing out that other data-mining outfits are still legal on FTP.
Sharkscope has retaliated by quietly suggesting a player boycott, while pointing out that other data-mining outfits are still legal on FTP.
Comments
To be completely honest Milo. They should ban all of it. I have heard that when the Ontario site comes online any Hud or whatever that gives a player an extra edge will not be allowed.
Might as well do it on all sites.
All of these things are available to the public. Everyone. The fact that some people choose not to invest time in studying and taking advantage of them deserve to be left in the dark.
It doesnt give a player an edge. An edge is when I have something that you dont.
i wonder if theres something ft specifically doesn't like
I have never EEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVEEEEERRRRR (shout out to Jericho fans:p) had a issue with full tilt in the 5 years I have been there.
I do hate the multi entry mtt's.
Maybe cause I am part owner or something...........;):D
How do I put this?. lol
I can agree with this as it does give out a little too much info.
I would not necessarily call them sore losers.
I swear sometimes it is like they know what card is coming.
Put everyone on a level playing field. Ban all of the software. I can see in the future when it all becomes legal in the US especially they could say no HUDS nothing. Just My Humble Opinion.
Please explain in detail how everyone is not currently on a level playing field.
The information is PUBLIC.
The fact that you or whoever chooses not to look at it is your own fault.
Maybe they should ban the ability to take notes too? By your logic, it gives me an edge.
Or maybe they should ban my memory from recalling a screenname, and their tendancies. That gives me an edge as well.
Ignorance is not an argument, as it pertains to this specific situation.
Ive still yet to hear a valid reason why opr, sharkscope or hud usage should not be allowed.
The info isn't public in that sense.
HUDs, and tracking sites and such cater to regs/backers/etc, which are all necessary for highstakes to run. If they banned all of these at once, it would put a significant dent in the highstakes games that run because backers wouldn't be able to back people for certain games anymore without being able to track their progress, players wouldn't be able to play as many games so guarantees would lower, some tournaments would get dropped, some SNGs wouldn't run at all, less cash game tables would fill. It's actually in everyone's best interest for the most part, except the fish in the sense that they lose more money, but I mean that shouldn't be a concern for fish that are choosing to play highstakes anyways, lol.
So I mean, it's sort of a debate between lowstakes vs. highstakes. At lowstakes there's almost none of the overall positives of these things that there are in highstakes, and the negatives such as players using stats to berate other players and people getting upset over "cheating" software and stuff outweighs the benefits. At highstakes the benefits I listed above outweigh the negatives in the sense that they are contingent on the existence of the games, which are contingent on regs, which are contingent on these sites/software.
Sure it is, people have the choice to pay for someone getting them the info and displaying it...or, doing their homework and collecting the information themselves. The info is out there, and free. Sharkscope isn't collecting any information that isn't readily available to the public...they just charge a fee for their time and effort in collecting it.
Similar thread trying to start elsewhere, might as well copy paste what I said:
(I know spoken, like a true fish too lazy to learn the pluses, will admit guilty as charged right now)
We need our own thread to discuss using tracking software like Sharkscope, Hold’em Manager, Poker Table Ratings etc…or any HUD in general.
Personally , I use databases to view my own stats, but while I see the value and edge a player can get by learning the information that these provide on opponents and eventually people learn to interpret the same information by watching/profiling live opponents, I don’t understand why it has never been deemed “semi cheating” or “semi-botting”
Yes, it becomes almost a must when multi-tabling a ton of games, as a player just can’t act fast enough and needs to filter info, but this is precisely what makes it what it is. Many players have come to accept it as “everyone is doing it”.
To me, when you sit down to play someone new, it might cost you a few pots or tournaments to figure out new opponents, but good players adapt and the money comes back around.
Knowing playing styles without paying the overhead of the game seems unfair, not efficient but an advantage just the same.
I realize it’s about making money, but other perceptions I have read say this is killing the game. The fish never win and don’t come back. Players find it increasingly difficult to find an edge on those using all the tricks of the trade and money doesn’t move. More people don’t trust online and the pond dries up more. Software becomes more sophisticated to bring back an edge. More and more like a bot with artificial intelligence, yet everyone hates bots…..
Opposition to regulating online poker get more ammo by pointing at this all and I believe more and more online sites will have to tighten the leash, hopefully making it a more level field and breathing new life into the game. Balance is good.
Your thoughts?
I usually have a good idea who is using it by speed and bet size, if it is outside normal patterns players have using the “slider”. All it means to me is that the player is experienced enough to use the tools and that I should defend more, play more post flop against and try not to be as exploitable as my stats will be telling him. This is of course at the micros.
I love the topics of debate online. If there is such thing as action flops for example, all it means to me is pay attention to board texture and act accordingly, all things that just make you a better player. If the big stack wins a high percentage of the time, avoid big confrontations with those that can afford to take a chance and stack you, it is a good rule to follow anytime.
As far as this all goes. Like I say, I can see the arguments from both sides, I like live poker more for the social aspect, but I know that I am not serious about ever going pro, so why criticize those that are keeping up with the times and evolution of how the game is played.
As far as for “funssies” goes, I think it is an edge over most but I can’t fault anyone who has put in the time to learn and get it.
Wetts, you are 100% right, except in one detail: FTP can set whatever terms they choose, as they own the site. We, as consumers can make our choices based on those rules.