FTP vs. SHARKSCOPE

So, FTP has banned Sharkscope in their ongoing efforts to prevent data mining of their site. Thoughts?

Sharkscope has retaliated by quietly suggesting a player boycott, while pointing out that other data-mining outfits are still legal on FTP.

Comments

  • Milo wrote: »
    So, FTP has banned Sharkscope in their ongoing efforts to prevent data mining of their site. Thoughts?

    Sharkscope has retaliated by quietly suggesting a player boycott, while pointing out that other data-mining outfits are still legal on FTP.

    To be completely honest Milo. They should ban all of it. I have heard that when the Ontario site comes online any Hud or whatever that gives a player an extra edge will not be allowed.

    Might as well do it on all sites.
  • I dont get it.

    All of these things are available to the public. Everyone. The fact that some people choose not to invest time in studying and taking advantage of them deserve to be left in the dark.

    It doesnt give a player an edge. An edge is when I have something that you dont.
  • Woooohoooooooooooo, good! It will cause some problems in the staking industry, but meh, I am sooooo glad I have got out of that industry(except for here of course where I will buy shares of you guys) and I have got out of poker and have moved on to other ventures,forums etc etc right now. :)
  • Wetts1012 wrote: »
    I dont get it.

    All of these things are available to the public. Everyone. The fact that some people choose not to invest time in studying and taking advantage of them deserve to be left in the dark.

    It doesnt give a player an edge. An edge is when I have something that you dont.
    +1

    i wonder if theres something ft specifically doesn't like
  • The fucking thing isn't helping me. Still have retards hitting one outers on the river. Or the Gonad biter tonight who cracked my trip K's with Quad 5's
  • +2. According to Sharkscope, FTP's motivation for trying to block it is from player complaints. This could be caused by the sore losers who berate players by stupidly revealing their losing statistics from Sharkscope, :rolleyes: then the players complain to FTP.
    darbday wrote: »
    +1
    i wonder if theres something ft specifically doesn't like
  • BlondeFish wrote: »
    +2. According to Sharkscope, FTP's motivation for trying to block it is from player complaints. This could be caused by the sore losers who berate players by stupidly revealing their losing statistics from Sharkscope, :rolleyes: then the players complain to FTP.
    come to think of it i feel like this feeds the sharks....
  • Full tilt is the stone cold nuts, They just proved it again by instantly approving my withdrawal, they get back to my emails in less than 24 hours, I have no idea what all these people are talking about regarding no customer service, now trying to protect players and trying to make a good environment to play in.

    I have never EEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVEEEEERRRRR (shout out to Jericho fans:p) had a issue with full tilt in the 5 years I have been there.

    I do hate the multi entry mtt's.


    Maybe cause I am part owner or something...........;):D
  • BlondeFish wrote: »
    +2. According to Sharkscope, FTP's motivation for trying to block it is from player complaints. This could be caused by the sore losers who berate players by stupidly revealing their losing statistics from Sharkscope, :rolleyes: then the players complain to FTP.

    How do I put this?. lol
    I can agree with this as it does give out a little too much info.
    I would not necessarily call them sore losers.
    I swear sometimes it is like they know what card is coming.
    Put everyone on a level playing field. Ban all of the software. I can see in the future when it all becomes legal in the US especially they could say no HUDS nothing. Just My Humble Opinion.
  • HVEEPOKER wrote: »
    Put everyone on a level playing field. Ban all of the software.

    Please explain in detail how everyone is not currently on a level playing field.

    The information is PUBLIC.

    The fact that you or whoever chooses not to look at it is your own fault.

    Maybe they should ban the ability to take notes too? By your logic, it gives me an edge.

    Or maybe they should ban my memory from recalling a screenname, and their tendancies. That gives me an edge as well.

    Ignorance is not an argument, as it pertains to this specific situation.

    Ive still yet to hear a valid reason why opr, sharkscope or hud usage should not be allowed.
  • You don't think the players that pay monthly for access to Sharkscope don't have an edge over the players who only get 5 views a day?

    The info isn't public in that sense.
  • I think that at micro/lowstakes banning all of this stuff would have ~0 affect, and that's where a lot of the critics of HUDs/sharkscope/etc are coming from. At the highstakes I think a lot of these things (particularly a HUD) are somewhat necessary in the sense that low/micro stakes will still run regardless of these types of things, but highstakes games are NOT guaranteed to run if all of these were taken away (I don't mean all highstakes would stop, but we'd see a significant decrease in volume). Regs are necessary for higherstakes MTTs/SNGs/cash to run in the current climate, and the more games they can play, the more games will run, the more rake the sites generate, the more options we have as players, etc etc.

    HUDs, and tracking sites and such cater to regs/backers/etc, which are all necessary for highstakes to run. If they banned all of these at once, it would put a significant dent in the highstakes games that run because backers wouldn't be able to back people for certain games anymore without being able to track their progress, players wouldn't be able to play as many games so guarantees would lower, some tournaments would get dropped, some SNGs wouldn't run at all, less cash game tables would fill. It's actually in everyone's best interest for the most part, except the fish in the sense that they lose more money, but I mean that shouldn't be a concern for fish that are choosing to play highstakes anyways, lol.

    So I mean, it's sort of a debate between lowstakes vs. highstakes. At lowstakes there's almost none of the overall positives of these things that there are in highstakes, and the negatives such as players using stats to berate other players and people getting upset over "cheating" software and stuff outweighs the benefits. At highstakes the benefits I listed above outweigh the negatives in the sense that they are contingent on the existence of the games, which are contingent on regs, which are contingent on these sites/software.
  • Wetts1012 wrote: »

    Or maybe they should ban my memory from recalling a screenname, and their tendancies. That gives me an edge as well.
    yes ban please...
  • BuyinBank wrote: »
    You don't think the players that pay monthly for access to Sharkscope don't have an edge over the players who only get 5 views a day?

    The info isn't public in that sense.

    Sure it is, people have the choice to pay for someone getting them the info and displaying it...or, doing their homework and collecting the information themselves. The info is out there, and free. Sharkscope isn't collecting any information that isn't readily available to the public...they just charge a fee for their time and effort in collecting it.
  • Agree that it is available to everybody and firm believer that it is needed to be competitve since it is. Much respect for everyones game, you all know that. I think that eventually the player doesn't even need the stats to recognize the patterns and info, they have trained their brain and it's just convience, but just for debates sake (and because threads do so much better with a variety of opinions) ...I think Vekked addressed a ton of this in his reply, going to dive more deeply into it later, could only skim.

    Similar thread trying to start elsewhere, might as well copy paste what I said:

    (I know spoken, like a true fish too lazy to learn the pluses, will admit guilty as charged right now)

    We need our own thread to discuss using tracking software like Sharkscope, Hold’em Manager, Poker Table Ratings etc…or any HUD in general.
    Personally , I use databases to view my own stats, but while I see the value and edge a player can get by learning the information that these provide on opponents and eventually people learn to interpret the same information by watching/profiling live opponents, I don’t understand why it has never been deemed “semi cheating” or “semi-botting”
    Yes, it becomes almost a must when multi-tabling a ton of games, as a player just can’t act fast enough and needs to filter info, but this is precisely what makes it what it is. Many players have come to accept it as “everyone is doing it”.
    To me, when you sit down to play someone new, it might cost you a few pots or tournaments to figure out new opponents, but good players adapt and the money comes back around.
    Knowing playing styles without paying the overhead of the game seems unfair, not efficient but an advantage just the same.
    I realize it’s about making money, but other perceptions I have read say this is killing the game. The fish never win and don’t come back. Players find it increasingly difficult to find an edge on those using all the tricks of the trade and money doesn’t move. More people don’t trust online and the pond dries up more. Software becomes more sophisticated to bring back an edge. More and more like a bot with artificial intelligence, yet everyone hates bots…..
    Opposition to regulating online poker get more ammo by pointing at this all and I believe more and more online sites will have to tighten the leash, hopefully making it a more level field and breathing new life into the game. Balance is good.
    Your thoughts?
  • To be quite honest I don’t care either way, no matter if it is unfair or an edge or not. I have no problem accepting those serious about the game need to be efficient.
    I usually have a good idea who is using it by speed and bet size, if it is outside normal patterns players have using the “slider”. All it means to me is that the player is experienced enough to use the tools and that I should defend more, play more post flop against and try not to be as exploitable as my stats will be telling him. This is of course at the micros.
    I love the topics of debate online. If there is such thing as action flops for example, all it means to me is pay attention to board texture and act accordingly, all things that just make you a better player. If the big stack wins a high percentage of the time, avoid big confrontations with those that can afford to take a chance and stack you, it is a good rule to follow anytime.
    As far as this all goes. Like I say, I can see the arguments from both sides, I like live poker more for the social aspect, but I know that I am not serious about ever going pro, so why criticize those that are keeping up with the times and evolution of how the game is played.
    As far as for “funssies” goes, I think it is an edge over most but I can’t fault anyone who has put in the time to learn and get it.
  • Wetts1012 wrote: »
    Please explain in detail how everyone is not currently on a level playing field.

    The information is PUBLIC.

    The fact that you or whoever chooses not to look at it is your own fault.

    Maybe they should ban the ability to take notes too? By your logic, it gives me an edge.

    Or maybe they should ban my memory from recalling a screenname, and their tendancies. That gives me an edge as well.

    Ignorance is not an argument, as it pertains to this specific situation.

    Ive still yet to hear a valid reason why opr, sharkscope or hud usage should not be allowed.

    Wetts, you are 100% right, except in one detail: FTP can set whatever terms they choose, as they own the site. We, as consumers can make our choices based on those rules.
  • Meh point is apparently moot now...
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