Where did things go wrong?
I was motoring through a 2-table SNG Saturday night, confidently heading for the money when the gods that rig pokerstars reached out and slapped me down. I had been among the chip leaders, aggressively taking down some nice pots. I had recently lost a medium sized pot to give up the chip lead.
Any thoughts on this hand? I've included my thoughts as it played out.
PokerStars Game #1084389206: Tournament #4641054, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/01/16 - 01:07:11 (ET) Table '4641054 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: pkrfce9 (4944 in chips)
Seat 2: elriffe08 (6113 in chips)
Seat 3: JAWSRL (4327 in chips)
Seat 4: perfume66 (3053 in chips)
Seat 5: bonza (7093 in chips)
Seat 9: mikesd619 (1470 in chips)
pkrfce9: posts the ante 25
elriffe08: posts the ante 25
JAWSRL: posts the ante 25
perfume66: posts the ante 25
bonza: posts the ante 25
mikesd619: posts the ante 25
JAWSRL: posts small blind 100
perfume66: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pkrfce9 [Qd Qh]
bonza: calls 200
mikesd619: raises 1245 to 1445 and is all-in
pkrfce9: calls 1445
elriffe08: folds
JAWSRL: folds
perfume66: folds
bonza: calls 1245
So, the chip leader limped in UTG, the small stack raised all in and I was looking at QQ and felt pretty happy. I wasn't too worried about beating the small stack or even losing those chips to him. At this point, if someone else wanted to come along for the ride, I would be only too happy to take their chips so I smooth called. I was a bit concerned about what kind of hand the chip leader may have had that would make him want to get into this but he had been playing a bit loose and was maybe hoping to hit something.
*** FLOP *** [4h Qs 8h]
bonza: checks
pkrfce9: bets 1200
bonza: calls 1200
Amazing! I hit top set off the flop. I didn't want to put too many chips in the pot right away since I wanted to milk some more chips from the big stack. As I expected, he called. Ha ha ha! He is falling into my trap. Wait a second. What kind of hand could he have? Does he have a Q? 4's? 8's? If he had a set or an overpair would he raise? Is he on a flush draw? My mind is starting to ache...
*** TURN *** [4h Qs 8h] [Ah]
bonza: checks
pkrfce9: bets 1800
bonza: calls 1800
This is a bit scary. If he has hearts, I'm in trouble. If he is slowplaying aces I'm screwed. But wait! I've got a heart too and a high one (and the board could pair if he has hearts) so I've got outs. I've already got half my chips in the pot so I can't walk away from this one. If he is playing AQ, I've got him right where I want him. What is he most likely holding?
I felt I had to make a bigger bet here since heads up in the side pot I have to think I've still got the best hand. Trouble is, I haven't left myself many chips for a bet at the river. His smooth call bugs me. If he has hearts, why doesn't he just take the rest of my chips? Or is he waiting for me to self-destruct? Too late now - self-destruct sequence engaged.
*** RIVER *** [4h Qs 8h Ah] [2h]
bonza: checks
pkrfce9: bets 474 and is all-in
bonza: calls 474
Holy crap! I hit the 2nd nut flush. The only card that scares me is Kh. What are the odds he's called me all the way through with Kh? No way! I pushed what few chips I had left into the pot, knowing all along he's going to call me. I prepare to bask in the praise of my table for the monster hand I've played so magnificently to become the overwhelming chip leader.
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pkrfce9: shows [Qd Qh] (a flush, Ace high)
bonza: shows [Kh Ks] (a flush, Ace high - King higher)
bonza collected 6948 from side pot
mikesd619: shows [Jd Js] (a pair of Jacks)
bonza collected 4785 from main pot
WTF? Argggggggggggggggggggggggh! He's got the one hand that makes sense to call all the way through. Man I hate this game sometimes.
I can't see how I could have played this one differently to achieve a different result. Pre-flop if I had raised, big stack would have called with kings. On the flop, he had an overpair and would not have automatically put me on a set. If I had gone all-in, would he have folded with an overpair? Did I want him to? (In hindsight, YES :eek: ) On the turn, he had a flush draw and wouldn't automatically have put me on the flush or figured I had aces. Even if I had put in the rest of my chips here, he's going to call. The pot is just too big for him to fold. On the river, I had so few chips left, with only one hand out there to beat me, I had to go for it and he's not going to fold with the nuts for sure! To add insult to injury, I finished in 5th spot - one from the money.
This guy never bet out once. Was he slow-playing the whole way, thinking he had the best hand? He had committed a big chunk of his stack to this pot and did not have the nuts until the river. I wonder if he spent any time after the showdown realizing how freaking lucky he was. Sadly, I doubt it.
So did I make a horrendous mistake? Or do I just add it to the increasingly large collection of hands that make me feel this place is rigged?
I still shake my head when I think about this one.
Any thoughts on this hand? I've included my thoughts as it played out.
PokerStars Game #1084389206: Tournament #4641054, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/01/16 - 01:07:11 (ET) Table '4641054 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: pkrfce9 (4944 in chips)
Seat 2: elriffe08 (6113 in chips)
Seat 3: JAWSRL (4327 in chips)
Seat 4: perfume66 (3053 in chips)
Seat 5: bonza (7093 in chips)
Seat 9: mikesd619 (1470 in chips)
pkrfce9: posts the ante 25
elriffe08: posts the ante 25
JAWSRL: posts the ante 25
perfume66: posts the ante 25
bonza: posts the ante 25
mikesd619: posts the ante 25
JAWSRL: posts small blind 100
perfume66: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pkrfce9 [Qd Qh]
bonza: calls 200
mikesd619: raises 1245 to 1445 and is all-in
pkrfce9: calls 1445
elriffe08: folds
JAWSRL: folds
perfume66: folds
bonza: calls 1245
So, the chip leader limped in UTG, the small stack raised all in and I was looking at QQ and felt pretty happy. I wasn't too worried about beating the small stack or even losing those chips to him. At this point, if someone else wanted to come along for the ride, I would be only too happy to take their chips so I smooth called. I was a bit concerned about what kind of hand the chip leader may have had that would make him want to get into this but he had been playing a bit loose and was maybe hoping to hit something.
*** FLOP *** [4h Qs 8h]
bonza: checks
pkrfce9: bets 1200
bonza: calls 1200
Amazing! I hit top set off the flop. I didn't want to put too many chips in the pot right away since I wanted to milk some more chips from the big stack. As I expected, he called. Ha ha ha! He is falling into my trap. Wait a second. What kind of hand could he have? Does he have a Q? 4's? 8's? If he had a set or an overpair would he raise? Is he on a flush draw? My mind is starting to ache...
*** TURN *** [4h Qs 8h] [Ah]
bonza: checks
pkrfce9: bets 1800
bonza: calls 1800
This is a bit scary. If he has hearts, I'm in trouble. If he is slowplaying aces I'm screwed. But wait! I've got a heart too and a high one (and the board could pair if he has hearts) so I've got outs. I've already got half my chips in the pot so I can't walk away from this one. If he is playing AQ, I've got him right where I want him. What is he most likely holding?
I felt I had to make a bigger bet here since heads up in the side pot I have to think I've still got the best hand. Trouble is, I haven't left myself many chips for a bet at the river. His smooth call bugs me. If he has hearts, why doesn't he just take the rest of my chips? Or is he waiting for me to self-destruct? Too late now - self-destruct sequence engaged.
*** RIVER *** [4h Qs 8h Ah] [2h]
bonza: checks
pkrfce9: bets 474 and is all-in
bonza: calls 474
Holy crap! I hit the 2nd nut flush. The only card that scares me is Kh. What are the odds he's called me all the way through with Kh? No way! I pushed what few chips I had left into the pot, knowing all along he's going to call me. I prepare to bask in the praise of my table for the monster hand I've played so magnificently to become the overwhelming chip leader.
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pkrfce9: shows [Qd Qh] (a flush, Ace high)
bonza: shows [Kh Ks] (a flush, Ace high - King higher)
bonza collected 6948 from side pot
mikesd619: shows [Jd Js] (a pair of Jacks)
bonza collected 4785 from main pot
WTF? Argggggggggggggggggggggggh! He's got the one hand that makes sense to call all the way through. Man I hate this game sometimes.
I can't see how I could have played this one differently to achieve a different result. Pre-flop if I had raised, big stack would have called with kings. On the flop, he had an overpair and would not have automatically put me on a set. If I had gone all-in, would he have folded with an overpair? Did I want him to? (In hindsight, YES :eek: ) On the turn, he had a flush draw and wouldn't automatically have put me on the flush or figured I had aces. Even if I had put in the rest of my chips here, he's going to call. The pot is just too big for him to fold. On the river, I had so few chips left, with only one hand out there to beat me, I had to go for it and he's not going to fold with the nuts for sure! To add insult to injury, I finished in 5th spot - one from the money.
This guy never bet out once. Was he slow-playing the whole way, thinking he had the best hand? He had committed a big chunk of his stack to this pot and did not have the nuts until the river. I wonder if he spent any time after the showdown realizing how freaking lucky he was. Sadly, I doubt it.
So did I make a horrendous mistake? Or do I just add it to the increasingly large collection of hands that make me feel this place is rigged?
I still shake my head when I think about this one.
Comments
QQ lost to KK ...what a shocker.
I dont think you did anything wrong in this hand...you got a lucky flop and an unlucky turn and river.
I play the hand the same way at this point.
Since he limped in and called pre-flop and is now calling again, I will put him on a flush draw. Before he calls I would have been thinking “What will he call with?†and I will want to bet enough that his call is bad. I think 1200 is too small. The pot is about 4500. I am simply going to move in and hope he calls.
I would have had him on an ace high flush draw… now, I don’t know? I still figure I am best. However, I might want to leave myself and escape valve. Since he called on the flop he will almost certainly call here. The only thing I can imagine him folding is a pocket pair lower than Q which he called on the flop with “in case I am bluffing.†That hand is drawing dead. Any other hand he calls with will possible have outs to my set. I might check the turn here intending to bet the river unless a death card hits.
You definitely should have checked the river. 474 is a pittance but it is better to have 474 than to win that much extra in this big pot. Check and, and you say, pick up a beauty. If the unimaginable happens and you lose, the you still have 474 to carry on the fight.
There is nothing you could to do change the outcome of this hand. Had you moved in on the flop, he would have called (he was slowplaying). The only hope was to check the river and still have 474.
Cheers
Magi
Greed definitely got the better of me on this one. I was already counting the prize money. :redface:
If I had taken the pot on the flop, I would have increased my stack by around 3000 chips. I was looking for another 3000 on top of that and that is when the wheels fell off. I'm not entirely sure an all-in bet on the flop would have changed the outcome. I had a strong sense the guy would have called whatever I bet anyway. I'm sure on the flop he felt he had the best hand. He would have had a tough decision, for sure but I think he would have called.
The only time he may have been scared was on the turn when the flush became possible plus I could have paired the ace for all he knew. But I think he would have risked another 1800 chips to pick up 8200. If that is the case, 2250 to pick up 8650 would have also been a good deal to him. So all-in on the turn wouldn't have helped either, I fear.
Months ago I posted about a hand that busted me out of the first pokerforum.ca tourney this season. I had KK against A6 and got greedy in that one too. Well, I think I've finally gotten it through my head now. As a punishment this time, I forced myself to watch Celebrity Poker. Ugh!
Speaking of rigged, we had JJ, QQ and KK dealt to a table of 6 players. If only I'd checked my system clock, I could have predicted this!
Thanks for the feedback.
Don't be so hard on yourself! I think the punishment is a little harsh.