Making money at lower limits

PokerEH.com

Hi!

I have been teaching my wife poker for about 6 months now, and a few months ago started taking her on my poker trips to the Brantford Charity Casino, where they offer 2/5 limit games. I play 10/20 limit.

I have noticed that over the last several sessions, she has shown a good sized profit during our session. She has been up over $100 in each of the last three sessions, with the most recent close to $200. Our sessions are usually no longer then 4-6 hours. I know that the rule of thumb is 2 big bets an hour, but with really weak games, could this be drastically increased?

My question is this: Is there anyone out there who is playing 2/5 limits who is showing a solid hourly profit? Is it even possible, with the high rake, and the numerous calling stations? I don't have nearly enough results for anything conslusive, but I am very curious if it is possible.

SlantNGo

I don't know about live games, especially with the high 2/5 rake, but I know of players who have maintained 5 BB/100 for over 100,000 hands at 0.5/1 Party. At about 60 hands/hour/table, this comes out to 3 BB/hr/table, with a much friendlier rake than live. However, the Rama & Brantford 2/5 players are also much worse than the 0.5/1 Party players. But that rake is just too much... I think even 2 BB/hr would be a hell of an accomplishment at that game.

MickeyHoldem

For 2004... I averaged $10.20 an hour at B&M play... the majority was 3-6 and 5-10.(about a 70-30 split)... both these games are played with a kill. I played 376.75 hours in 2004. the rake is 10% up to $3 on the 3-6 and up to $4 on the 5-10, and there is a buck raked for the jackpot at both games. (haven't hit that yet!! ) There were a few sessions of NL mixed in there (up a little) and 1 session of 15-30 (down a little) This is all US funds!:)

PokerEH.com

SlantNGo: I didn't know there were actually people grinding it out at the .50 cent tables. I play primarily 10-20 online, but couldn't imaging playing 3 tables @ once for $10/hour profit.

MickeyHoldem: Those are solid numbers. Its nice to see you keeping good records of your game. Far too many players don't. I had 3 months of statistics lost when my computer's Hard drive crashed (I know, I should do more backups), but after tracking my online play for Septemeber- December of 04, I was averaging just over $45 profit/hour, @ 10-20, and occasionally 15-30. I'd say the numbers were on about 250 hours played.

I will start keeping track of my wife's play, although we only get out together about once a week, I'm truly curious to see how she does over this year. Were actually going up to Brantford tomorrow, and I told her I'd sit and play some 2-5 with her. It should be interesting.

macbb

PokerEH.com wrote:

I will start keeping track of my wife's play, although we only get out together about once a week, I'm truly curious to see how she does over this year. Were actually going up to Brantford tomorrow, and I told her I'd sit and play some 2-5 with her. It should be interesting.

David, when you say "tomorrow", do you mean Tuesday or Wednesday? (since you wrote this early Tuesday morning, I'm not sure.

Reason I asked is I'm planning to be in Brantford Tuesday. I hope to arrive around 3:30 or 4:00. If you're there, see if you can find me. I'll be wearing my Buffalo Bills jacket.

macbb

SlantNGo

Most sane people don't stay at 0.5/1 that long... but yes, there are some. I'm still building my BR, recently moved up to 1/2, playing 2 tables.

PokerEH.com

We just got back a few hours ago... We got there (Tuesday) at around 7ish.. got on the tables around 9..

Once again, my wife up $178 in 4 hours....

macbb

PokerEH.com wrote:

We just got back a few hours ago... We got there (Tuesday) at around 7ish.. got on the tables around 9..

Once again, my wife up $178 in 4 hours....

Congrats to her! How'd you do?

I was there until about 10:00, played 5/10 yesterday, at table 6.

Maybe we'll meet up another time.

macbb

PokerEH.com

I was down about 40 bucks, but 2-5's not my game. I was playing more for her support. I wanted to see her 'dominate the table' for myself

Interesting hand came up there...

I was in LP with AQ spades, and I raised.. 5 callers.

Flop is KQ4, rainbow (1 spade)

Everone checks to me, I check

Turn comes, 7 spade. Everyone checks to me, I bet. (backdoor flush + 2nd pair + 1 overcard) 2 callers

River comes, 2 diamonds. Suddendly, first guy to act bets, second guy calls, I fold. Can't overcall with 2nd pair....

First guy has a A4, second guy has Q 10.

This is why I can't play 2-5... I put the 2nd player on MINIMUM of top pair weak kicker. I did this about 5 times during the night, throwing away the best hand, because I was confident I was beaten.

I started keeping track of my wife's 2-5 play so far this year. In 3 sessons, she's averaging just over $40/hour profit.

SlantNGo

Bet the flop. Bet the turn. Maybe 1st guy wouldn't be the river now... if he didn't, bet the river. If he did, yea, that's a tough overcall but that's a pretty big pot vs. two irrational players, call it.

the_main

I wouldve bet that flop, bet the turn and then checked the river (he likely wouldnt have bet)

PokerEH.com

I maybe should have bet the flop, but v.s. very weak competition, I almost never semi-bluff, and with 5 callers preflop, I didn't figure 2nd pair to be good. I didn't mind giving a free card, as there was probibly a King Rag out there somewhere. If guy in spot 1 doesn't come out betting on river, I would have bet if checked to me. I just find that 95% of the time, when playing weak opponents, an out of turn bet (i.e. someone who has been checking & calling all along, and then suddendly bets) usually means he hit his draw. I feel it was more of bad read then a poor betting strategy. I guess sometimes at lower limits, you just need to grin & bear it... (and call)

Gotta get back to the 10-20 tables

SlantNGo

It's good often enough that you should bet for value on all three streets. It's not a semi-bluff... a King will not fold, and since you have an Ace, you're not trying to fold overcards.

PokerEH.com wrote:

I maybe should have bet the flop, but v.s. very weak competition, I almost never semi-bluff, and with 5 callers preflop, I didn't figure 2nd pair to be good.

Ed Miller says the exact opposite in Small Stakes Hold'em, that in fact, an out of turn bet is usually BS. Given no read on your opponent, I estimate, that about 60% of the time, it's betting with a weak hand, 40% of the time it's a guy who made his draw and doesn't want to c/r.

PokerEH.com wrote:

I just find that 95% of the time, when playing weak opponents, an out of turn bet (i.e. someone who has been checking & calling all along, and then suddendly bets) usually means he hit his draw.

I find that at lower limits you have to make many calldowns which are losers at higher limits. For example, the transition from Party 0.5/1 to 1/2 full is usually described as "from the aquarium to the rock garden" (theory is, all the bad players are at the 6-max tables). I'd think it represents the jump from 5/10 to 10/20 B&M. I found that a lot of the calldowns I made at 0.5/1 that were profitable are becoming unprofitable in 1/2... so I'd be susceptible to the same type of mistake.

MikeyGee

I was playing .25/.50 at pokerroom and it was killing me. I couldn't win at all. I was playing super tight and aggressive to no avail. Then with some advice from some friends I moved up in limits. I started playing 1/2 then up to 2/4. I play about 6-10 hours a week and I am up $550. I only started playing these limits mid December. I also have been to Brantford a few times and lost three straight sessions playing 2/5. Then I played two sessions in a row at the 5/10 and made 160 and 340 respectively. I know these results may be inconclusive because of the minimal amount of playing time. I do not think I will play these smaller limits again.




MikeyGee