Did they apply for a charity licence and operated strictly as a non-profit organization?
My understanding is that under the charitable gaming legislation there is no inclusion of poker. You can do bingo, etc., but no poker. I have no idea how so many charities get away with having tournies other than the authorities choosing not to enforce the law as strictly as strictly as is within their discretion.
Just read through the whole thread I posted above (sorry, should have done that first) and it looks like these guys ran a couple of events and then never followed through on the last one.
Wonder if they were getting too much publicity and were told to shut it down?
Any chance this was the "rotating hotel game" that Wetts was talking about?
Also, any word on whether or not the event in May 2010 actually happened after the snafu in 2008?
Sorry for the thread hijack, but this seems to be a group trying to do exactly what the OP was suggesting.
Just read through the whole thread I posted above (sorry, should have done that first) and it looks like these guys ran a couple of events and then never followed through on the last one.
Wonder if they were getting too much publicity and were told to shut it down?
Not sure on this, but I was in on the first 2 which were ok, you qualified through playthrough at online sites. It was a freeroll live.
Guys to be fair im just throwing out the idea i doubt if i would ever undertake the idea. I would consider it if thing fell into place and when i go back home il chat to a few guys in the industry and get there thoughts.
Im leaving here in Feb but would consider coming back in the summer. Would guys here think there is a market for running a game 3 nights a week in a condo in downtown Toronto.
Fair rake 4/5% max $8 - free soft drinks and some food.
I feel that guys are probably not getting a fair deal with home games.
What are the chances of this type of game been busted?
If trust was built maybe money could even be transferred online which makes the game even safer from robberies.
Lots of "fair" home games around here, none of which are raked. As for Underground club action, what's "fair" is irrelevant, as the players assume much less risk than the operators. Simple credo is to find out the rake before you sit down, and don't sit down if you do not like the structure.
As for robberies, I think the government raids more clubs than the crooks do, but could just be semantics, ya know?
Did they apply for a charity licence and operated strictly as a non-profit organization?
Charity License in Ont do not include Poker. It is illegal. Black Jack and crown and anchor or bingo.
It is also a seperate issue when you are raffling Liquor.
Guys to be fair im just throwing out the idea i doubt if i would ever undertake the idea. I would consider it if thing fell into place and when i go back home il chat to a few guys in the industry and get there thoughts.
Im leaving here in Feb but would consider coming back in the summer. Would guys here think there is a market for running a game 3 nights a week in a condo in downtown Toronto.
Fair rake 4/5% max $8 - free soft drinks and some food.
I feel that guys are probably not getting a fair deal with home games.
What are the chances of this type of game been busted?
If trust was built maybe money could even be transferred online which makes the game even safer from robberies.
To build trust you would have to play in several games of players on this forum. This is so people get to know who you are.
As far as transfering money on line to play in a live tournament, I really don't think you are going to get too many who will do this.
You would be best to host a couple of games to do this.
If I am going to transfer funds on line I want to know where they are going and who is receiving them. I don't care if its 5 cents or 5K .
I also want to know where this person or group resides.
Big thing here is that the Government want's to keep organized crime out of the gambling business. IMO Goverment is the biggest form of LEGALIZED Disorganized Crime around.
We would be pretty naive to think that certain groups are not running a lot of the illegal games that are currently running in undergrounds all over the province.
There is probably a good chance of you running a said game in downtown but you will end up with a KNOCK AT or The front door being KNOCKED IN eventually.
If i have a venue that is free and i want to be tournament director for free. I then can run a game where players buy in for $500 provided all the money goes to the tournament.
If the above is true then i cant see how this would not be a fantastic marketing opportunity for a online poker site to come in and run something.
If i have a venue that is free and i want to be tournament director for free. I then can run a game where players buy in for $500 provided all the money goes to the tournament.
We already do this, these are games run by forumers that are not raked at lots of different buyins.. Trick is to find a venue for free that is large enough... You won't find enough players at the $500. price point though...
$40 to $80 most. There are some that fill up quite quick, along with OPT Ching Hill and Bristol Street.
The people who run these tourneys have been for some time and are well liked and respected by almost everyone. It's pretty much guaranteed that you will see at least 70 % of the players at all of these.
Meaning 7 out of 10 playing at the Hill will be at OPT or Buzzards.
Am I right in thinking that most decent tournaments are a little outside of Toronto? I would love to play something in the $40-$80 price range but from what I can see most are not within easy reach for someone who does not have a car.
I play cash online everyday so the cash games that are around town wouldn't interest me that much but I may play them in the future just for the social aspect.
If anyone could point me in the right direction of a good tournament, easily accessible from downtown Toronto, in the $200 and under price range I would love it.
I have a thread new to Toronto up but its been mainly cash replies I've been getting.
Thanks for clarifying that for me. As you know, that event was a little before my time.
Though I do think the priniciple was fairly similar, as there were no buy-ins paid at the event and I'm assuming no cash games, thus the organizers felt safer running it (no incentive to get robbed and hopefully it keeps the cops away).
You guys were technically "buying-in" with an online payment, though not in the traditional sense. When you completed those deals at Mansion or wherever, the organizers were getting $150 to $200 per player. There were then using a portion of those funds to organize the "free" tournament.
I wouldn't be surprised if they got shut down based on the fact they were profiting on the free tournament they were organizing, even if they said it was going to charity. 100-200 player tournaments definitely draw attention to the organizers.
Wow. I'd assume the CNE one was a very public venue.
From their former about us page:
AIFTC was formed in an effort to raise funds for local Toronto charities. Our mission was to host live poker tournaments in order to raise funds for those in need. Due to the legalities concerning Poker Tournaments in Ontario, our efforts at the time were crushed.
I wonder if the exposure of running 200+ player tournaments forced them to shut it down, as opposed to financial concerns. All speculation really, but it leaves the OP with the same problem if he tries to run big live events even with no money present at the venue without a shift in Ontario's present laws (unlikely).
Wow. I'd assume the CNE one was a very public venue.
From their former about us page:
I wonder if the exposure of running 200+ player tournaments forced them to shut it down, as opposed to financial concerns. All speculation really, but it leaves the OP with the same problem if he tries to run big live events even with no money present at the venue without a shift in Ontario's present laws (unlikely).
Absolutley, and it was advertised pretty heavily as well...
We never did hear about whether or not it was financial or legal, I suspect some of both... Is that really how much they would have been making off our deposits? I recall we only had to deposit $50. and gain so many points and it wasn't difficult.. There was no other payments. The 1st couple of prizes were decent trips as I recall, but after that it dropped off significantly. I only played them for experience at the time.
Some poker rooms are more generous than others. $150 to $200 is definitely on the high side, but if they were picking and choosing their deals carefully, I wouldn't be surprised.
$50 deposit with a fairly low number of player points required is pretty much standard.
No, there are other exemptions to "any gambling being illegal in Ontario", e.g., a private bet between individuals not engaged in any way in the business of betting is NOT illegal anywhere in Canada. See Section 204 of the Criminal Code. For example, friends betting on the Stanley Cup or playing rake-free poker at home does not need the legal approval of the Government of Ontario.
In Ontario, any gambling that is not approved, run by or directly profits the Government of Ontario, is illegal.
I have posted this numerous times before. No one has been able to post anything to disprove my statements.
Lets say i own a bar and i charge $100 to enter my Bar. Then i can run a rake free poker game cant i ?
Lets say i had a bar big enough to hold 100 people am i not allowed to charge these guys $20 (reg) to enter the bar that i own. Then there playing a rake free game?
Lets say i own a bar and i charge $100 to enter my Bar. Then i can run a rake free poker game cant i ?
Lets say i had a bar big enough to hold 100 people am i not allowed to charge these guys $20 (reg) to enter the bar that i own. Then there playing a rake free game?
Lets say i own a bar and i charge $100 to enter my Bar. Then i can run a rake free poker game cant i ?
Lets say i had a bar big enough to hold 100 people am i not allowed to charge these guys $20 (reg) to enter the bar that i own. Then there playing a rake free game?
I would think you could but you would have to charge everyone who enters the bar the same fee whether they wanted to play or not. And not sell any liquor cuz that would cause your license to be suspended.
As Wetts said, a fight you just cannot win.. Give it up, no way around the laws, spend your time and efforts getting the laws changed imo..
Lets say i own a bar and i charge $100 to enter my Bar. Then i can run a rake free poker game cant i ?
Lets say i had a bar big enough to hold 100 people am i not allowed to charge these guys $20 (reg) to enter the bar that i own. Then there playing a rake free game?
This one is in Montreal and advertised. The gestapo are probably turning a blind eye
Not sure if it is on a reserve or not.
___________________________________________
Another Historic Ignorant Post................
Are you refering to PokerInCanada which is an online site run by the Kahnawake? Which one are you refering to in Montreal?
or if you are refering to this one http://www.playgroundpoker.ca/about-us
which opened on Friday, it's on the reserve so doesn't count, as the police can't get approval to intervene. Again, as from what I have been told there is no legal poker in Que other than in casino's or on the reserves, just like here...
Are you refering to PokerInCanada which is an online site run by the Kahnawake? Which one are you refering to in Montreal?
or if you are refering to this one About
which opened on Friday, it's on the reserve so doesn't count, as the police can't get approval to intervene. Again, as from what I have been told there is no legal poker in Que other than in casino's or on the reserves, just like here...
was not sure if it was in Montreal or on Kahnawake. That's the one .
Comments
My understanding is that under the charitable gaming legislation there is no inclusion of poker. You can do bingo, etc., but no poker. I have no idea how so many charities get away with having tournies other than the authorities choosing not to enforce the law as strictly as strictly as is within their discretion.
Wonder if they were getting too much publicity and were told to shut it down?
Any chance this was the "rotating hotel game" that Wetts was talking about?
Also, any word on whether or not the event in May 2010 actually happened after the snafu in 2008?
Sorry for the thread hijack, but this seems to be a group trying to do exactly what the OP was suggesting.
Didn't happen.. Not sure why, think they had financial probs.. Don't know if there were legal warnings..
Not even close imo...
Im leaving here in Feb but would consider coming back in the summer. Would guys here think there is a market for running a game 3 nights a week in a condo in downtown Toronto.
Fair rake 4/5% max $8 - free soft drinks and some food.
I feel that guys are probably not getting a fair deal with home games.
What are the chances of this type of game been busted?
If trust was built maybe money could even be transferred online which makes the game even safer from robberies.
As for robberies, I think the government raids more clubs than the crooks do, but could just be semantics, ya know?
It is also a seperate issue when you are raffling Liquor.
To build trust you would have to play in several games of players on this forum. This is so people get to know who you are.
As far as transfering money on line to play in a live tournament, I really don't think you are going to get too many who will do this.
You would be best to host a couple of games to do this.
If I am going to transfer funds on line I want to know where they are going and who is receiving them. I don't care if its 5 cents or 5K .
I also want to know where this person or group resides.
Big thing here is that the Government want's to keep organized crime out of the gambling business. IMO Goverment is the biggest form of LEGALIZED Disorganized Crime around.
We would be pretty naive to think that certain groups are not running a lot of the illegal games that are currently running in undergrounds all over the province.
There is probably a good chance of you running a said game in downtown but you will end up with a KNOCK AT or The front door being KNOCKED IN eventually.
If i have a venue that is free and i want to be tournament director for free. I then can run a game where players buy in for $500 provided all the money goes to the tournament.
If the above is true then i cant see how this would not be a fantastic marketing opportunity for a online poker site to come in and run something.
We already do this, these are games run by forumers that are not raked at lots of different buyins.. Trick is to find a venue for free that is large enough... You won't find enough players at the $500. price point though...
The people who run these tourneys have been for some time and are well liked and respected by almost everyone. It's pretty much guaranteed that you will see at least 70 % of the players at all of these.
Meaning 7 out of 10 playing at the Hill will be at OPT or Buzzards.
I play cash online everyday so the cash games that are around town wouldn't interest me that much but I may play them in the future just for the social aspect.
If anyone could point me in the right direction of a good tournament, easily accessible from downtown Toronto, in the $200 and under price range I would love it.
I have a thread new to Toronto up but its been mainly cash replies I've been getting.
try here... http://www.meetup.com/poker-43/
Thanks for clarifying that for me. As you know, that event was a little before my time.
Though I do think the priniciple was fairly similar, as there were no buy-ins paid at the event and I'm assuming no cash games, thus the organizers felt safer running it (no incentive to get robbed and hopefully it keeps the cops away).
You guys were technically "buying-in" with an online payment, though not in the traditional sense. When you completed those deals at Mansion or wherever, the organizers were getting $150 to $200 per player. There were then using a portion of those funds to organize the "free" tournament.
I wouldn't be surprised if they got shut down based on the fact they were profiting on the free tournament they were organizing, even if they said it was going to charity. 100-200 player tournaments definitely draw attention to the organizers.
Where were these event held, btw?
From their former about us page:
I wonder if the exposure of running 200+ player tournaments forced them to shut it down, as opposed to financial concerns. All speculation really, but it leaves the OP with the same problem if he tries to run big live events even with no money present at the venue without a shift in Ontario's present laws (unlikely).
We never did hear about whether or not it was financial or legal, I suspect some of both... Is that really how much they would have been making off our deposits? I recall we only had to deposit $50. and gain so many points and it wasn't difficult.. There was no other payments. The 1st couple of prizes were decent trips as I recall, but after that it dropped off significantly. I only played them for experience at the time.
Some poker rooms are more generous than others. $150 to $200 is definitely on the high side, but if they were picking and choosing their deals carefully, I wouldn't be surprised.
$50 deposit with a fairly low number of player points required is pretty much standard.
Lets say i had a bar big enough to hold 100 people am i not allowed to charge these guys $20 (reg) to enter the bar that i own. Then there playing a rake free game?
This is a fight you just wont win.
As Wetts said, a fight you just cannot win.. Give it up, no way around the laws, spend your time and efforts getting the laws changed imo..
It's too bad Dalton and his gang of thugs are so ANAL RETENTIVE.
We could be buying beer at RABBA and playing cards in a local LEGALIZED CLUB.
Another Historic Ignorant Post...................
afaik, they are no more legal in Que than in Ontario.... Maybe enforced differently but no more legal...
The Quebec poker clubs are on reserves no?
the pseudo "legal" ones are but there are many undergrounds in/around mtl...
This is a liqour liscense violation.
No bar owner in Ontario will let you do this. It will cost them their business.
______________________________________
Another Historic Ignorant Post...................
This one is in Montreal and advertised. The gestapo are probably turning a blind eye
Not sure if it is on a reserve or not.
___________________________________________
Another Historic Ignorant Post................
Are you refering to PokerInCanada which is an online site run by the Kahnawake? Which one are you refering to in Montreal?
or if you are refering to this one
http://www.playgroundpoker.ca/about-us
which opened on Friday, it's on the reserve so doesn't count, as the police can't get approval to intervene. Again, as from what I have been told there is no legal poker in Que other than in casino's or on the reserves, just like here...
was not sure if it was in Montreal or on Kahnawake. That's the one .